Hey everyone. Many of you saw my recent
video debunking Kai Dickens and her
garbage podcast called The Telepathy
Tapes. Most of you were pleased to see
such a grifter exposed, but one person
who didn't like it very much was Kai
Dickens. She was desperate to get my
video off the internet, and she sure did
try her best. So, let's talk about what
happened and drag her through the mud
for it, shall we? If you didn't watch
the video I'm talking about, you should
probably do that first, or none of this
will make much sense. But to give you
the most succinct summary possible,
Kai's podcast is about how severely
autistic children have psychic
abilities. They don't. So Kai has to lie
a lot and spew a bunch of pseudocience
to sell this narrative. Much of it
centers around a technique called
facilitated communication, where an aid
assists an autistic child in pointing at
letters to spell out something they want
to say. But of course, it's really just
the facilitator subconsciously spelling
for the child. And we showed a bunch of
footage from a documentary that shows
how the kids are very transparently not
the ones communicating as they are often
looking in a completely different
direction during the process. A scandal
broke out because some facilitators
started communicating that these
children were being sexually abused by
parents. So the law got involved and
experts were hired to figure out whether
these claims could genuinely have been
coming from the children. An expert
designed a few brilliant studies whereby
the child was secretly shown something
different from the facilitator and the
facilitator would spell out what they
had seen rather than the child, thus
proving conclusively that the children
are not the ones communicating. Kai not
only ignores all of this crucial
research, but she attempts to vilify
anyone who elucidates the enormous
problems with facilitated communication,
which has been rebranded as spell to
communicate or other such phrases. This
is what Kai uses to push this grift
today along with a healthy smattering of
quantum mysticism in an attempt to
substantiate the grift scientifically
and open avenues for related
pseudocience. She's a monster who praise
on vulnerable parents of severely
autistic children. And she deserves
nothing but mockery and humiliation
until she stops making content
altogether. So that's the long and short
of it. And my video explains what I just
told you in extreme detail, proving
conclusively that Kai is a complete
fraud. knowingly pushing falsehoods to
make money with her podcast as well as a
film she has coming out soon. Kai didn't
appreciate the bad press from my debunk,
which didn't perform incredibly well,
but still with a couple hundred thousand
views, it's a big problem for her, even
more so now with her new movie and the
second season of her [\h__\h] podcast
recently released. So, she did what any
shameless fraud would do. She tried to
get my video banned from YouTube. I woke
up one day to the news that my video had
been removed entirely and I was dealt a
copyright strike. This had never
happened to me before. I've received not
actual strikes, but copyright claims
plenty of times. Some claims are
legitimate and I have to mute a portion
of audio where the video I'm commenting
on plays a copyrighted song. That's
annoying, but it's just how things work
and I have to deal with it. Some claims
are not legitimate because they are just
claiming content that I am commenting on
via fair use. whether those are angrily
filed by the person I'm debunking or
it's just some automatic algorithm
popping off. I can test those and in the
worst case scenario, income is put in
escrow for 30 days and I get it back
later. So, this also is not a big deal.
But this was different. My video was
completely removed from YouTube. I
didn't even know this was possible and I
don't really know how she did it. And I
know for a fact it was her because the
email address of the claimant was
provided info@the telepathytapes.com.
And on the player page, the claimant was
listed as the telepathytapes LLC. Well,
unfortunately for her, I was able to
appeal and after a period of 10 days,
the strike was removed and the video was
reinstated. Now, you could think that
I'm making a big deal over very little,
and you wouldn't be completely wrong.
People love clicking on videos that
reference censorship and I like people
clicking on my videos. But there is
actually more to discuss here. Once the
video got removed, people started
talking about it. Like in this Twitter
thread, and it became clear that this is
a pattern of behavior from Kai. She
attempts to censor any content that
exposes her grift, just like she did to
Janice Boon, an educator and advocate
for evidence-based practices in the
field of communications, sciences, and
disorders. About a year ago, she used a
very short clip from Kai's content to
debunk facilitated communication related
claims on her own channel called FC is
not science. And indeed, it isn't, as
we've known for decades, which is why
it's astounding that Kai is still trying
to push this crap. Here's the funny
part. Janice's video had only a few
thousand views, and it featured only a
very short clip from Kai's content. It
wasn't a video dedicated to debunking
Kai specifically. Regardless, Kai tried
to take it down. Janice fought it. The
video was reinstated and it sparked a
minor controversy. The debacle was
covered in the American Saga where
Janice talked about how she was clearly
being bullied into silence. It was also
covered in the Skeptical Inquirer, which
is a very popular magazine. So clearly,
this pathetic attempt at censorship,
blew up in Kai's face spectacularly. And
yet, she didn't seem to learn her
lesson. She wasn't able to bully a very
small channel into submission, but
somehow she thought that going after
mine was going to work out for her. I'm
much bigger, much louder, and much more
vindictive. But what can you say?
Grifters tend to be pretty stupid.
Anyway, with all of that context
understood, let's chat with Janice so we
can get to the bottom of precisely what
her content reveals that was so
threatening to Kai and talk about what
we can do to deal with her and other
similar frauds moving forward. enjoy
this conversation. Now,
>> Janice, thanks so much for joining me.
Uh, why don't we just start? You can
tell us a little bit about your
background, what you do for work, and
and you know, h how you came to this,
>> how I came to FC. Um, well, I was a
speech language clinician in the public
schools around 1990
and um that's when facilitated
communication came to the United States.
So it got to my school system around um
1992
and um a student had moved into our
district that was using facilitated
communication and came with a
facilitator. So, um, as a speech
language person, I mean, we didn't
really know what we were dealing with,
but as a speech language person, we
decided to that I would kind of um
explore facilitated communication
and um, I worked with the facilitator
first, which was that's was pretty
common at that time. And then I took the
the facil the training after I'd been
using it um for a little bit and that
was through the University of Maine um
which was our local university. Um and
then through that I don't know how much
of my story you want me to get into but
>> well we can I mean this is I think
what's most fascinating to me is that I
sort of came to this I I hadn't heard
anything about facilitated communication
or anything when I made that first
video. So all of this was new to me and
when I came upon these stories about uh
especially when those scandals broke out
about the facilitators um making these
accusations of of the sexual misconduct
and stuff, my first inclination is to
go, oh my gosh, who are these horrible
horrible facilitators that are doing
this? But then I started to realize no
many of them once these tests were done
to show that the facilitators are
communicating were were very taken back
and honest and like I didn't know now
they've done the research so they change
you know so it's actually really
interesting to be talking to somebody
like you that that sort of lived through
all of this. Um what was your did were
what was your perspective? I mean
obviously you heard about all these
scandals breaking out and then you oh
you didn't hear about them like what how
part of the scandal.
>> Okay.
>> I I was actually part of the scandal.
So, we started using facilitated
communication. One thing to know is that
in the workshops at that time, I'm I'm
not sure what they're teaching now, but
at that time, they were teaching that
that these um students or uh for us it
would be students cuz I was in the
public school um would be to expect
disclosures because this is the first
time that they have had the opportunity
to communicate independently. So, they
might have pent up anger or stories or
whatever. So the seed was kind of
planted in your head that
>> as a facilitator
you might get disclosures of um abuse or
whatever something going on at home. And
the other thing that that like and I say
this looking back 30 I mean it's been 30
years right? So I've had lots of time to
kind of deconstruct it and I've learned
a lot about facilitated communication.
So this is all through the eyes of now
more than back then.
>> Yes, of course.
>> Um but um at the time the they also and
they still teach this that that FC is
based on trust. So the person really
trusts you. Um they don't facilitate
with just anybody.
>> Um and and that really that trust bond
is really and the faith-based aspect of
FC is really what makes FC work.
>> Yeah. It it's not a communication
technique. Exactly. In that respect,
>> that makes sense. Yeah. There's a
cult-like aspect to it. So, when when it
came out, when it started to come out
that the empirical basis for it was
absolutely crumbling, what was it like
on the interior, were there factions,
like some people go, "Well, that's what
the data says." Or and people who are
like, "No, this is ridiculous. We're
really doing this." Like, what did that
look like? H well um the the the actual
testing actually took place in Australia
before it even got to the United States.
They had already debunked it, but we
didn't know that in the United States.
Mhm.
>> Um and so um about the same time that so
in my case it led to false allegations
of abuse and um the reason that came up
was that my students started to hit me
and scratch me and um
>> wow.
>> She probably just wanted to me to be out
of her space, right? Mhm.
>> Like that's really probably what all
that was. Um in my head with with my
training and and just, you know, like
whatever. Um my thought was, "Oh, she's
breaking that trust bond between us, so
why would that happen?" And
um my leap in my head was and other
people that we were discussing the
situation with was, "Well, maybe there's
something going on at home." So once you
have that seed planted and then you have
a DHS interview and all that, then false
allegations of abuse came out.
>> Yeah.
>> Um and then the testing. So I was taught
that I wasn't supposed to participate in
testing.
That's against the rules. You're
supposed to presume competence, right?
And the testing, they say the testing is
really confrontational and the the
researchers want the testing to fail.
And so as a facilitator, you've got this
in your head that you're not supposed to
test it. But in my case,
uh, what do you do? Like there's false
allegations of abuse
>> and we have to test this, right? We have
to determine the whether it's possible
for these
>> kids to be communicating these these
things.
>> If it's real, that's horrible, right?
And coming out through facilitated
communication. If the facilitator is
fabricating these,
that's terrible too.
>> Yeah.
>> And so I participated in the testing
which invol I don't know how much of
that you want me to go into
testing.
>> Yeah. In not too many spec specifics
because in my first video I did show
quite a lot of that footage where the
Yeah. They're the re, you know, the
researchers showing two different photos
unbeknownsted to the facilitator and
then this and then uh you know the they
they communicate the phrase that they
saw not the kids. So like I people if
they saw the first video are more or
less up to speed. I do want to get your
your take on on all of that and how
people reacted to it. But then you know
pretty quickly going to get to I want to
talk about the censorship and all that
juicy stuff. Yeah, that's
>> feel free to feel free to wrap up.
>> Like my my um emails have been exploding
over the last couple days. So,
>> so I actually part of the reason why I
reached I guess we didn't connect with
emails, but I had reached out to you
because you actually used part of the
footage from Prisoners of Silence that I
was involved with. I my actual case was
on um the when Howard Shane from Boston
Children's Hospital was showing the file
folder testing that was based on my
case.
>> Mhm.
>> So um my experience with that was I
didn't know anything about the
difference between an anecdote and
reliably controlled testing. Even though
I'd been through college and stuff,
that's not something we really talked
about that much. Mhm.
>> Um, so I didn't really know what was
going on, but during the testing when
when we were seeing different pictures
of the same pictures, I could feel
myself thinking, "Oh, are these pictures
the same or are they different?" And and
what's going to
>> what are the results going to be? You
know, I felt myself feeling those
things, which I think is probably pretty
common. But unless you're in a
structured situation like that, you're
just going to it's just going to go in
and out of your head really quickly.
>> Yeah.
>> Um anyway, so all of all of the
responses were either wrong facilitator
guesses. They were spelled right, but
they were facilitator guesses or they
were based on information that I had and
she didn't. So if I saw a picture of a
cat, she saw a picture of a tree, the
facilitated response was cat based on
what I had. So after I mean head
explode, devastated
cuz here I am thinking I'm helping this
kid, right?
>> And not only did I not help her, my
actions actually caused a lot of hurt
with that family and and in the end to
myself and lots of people around um
because of the pseudocientific part of
it and and really not questioning it.
>> Yeah. And so what happened after that
was the by then the OD hack center the
the other study that was um featured on
prisoners of silence those studies
started coming out and for me that that
was sort of comfort because here these
other facilitators had gone through
exactly what I had gone through and came
out with the same results. So in my head
I'm like it's FC that is probably the
problem.
>> Yes.
>> You know like before that I could say
because the the FC people came out right
away and saying I'm the I'm the bad
facilitator. The person who trained me
actually went on television on a 2020
show to to say that I was trained wrong
which is which is common with the
leadership.
>> Right. Um, they always throw the
facilitators under the bus. Yeah, FC
works, but the facilitators are bad.
>> Yeah, that one astrologer doesn't know
how to read a chart properly. But, but
astrology is true, though. Right.
>> Right. Yeah. I'm sure it's I'm sure it's
not limited just to facilitating
communication.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, but in my case, um,
the FC community kind of did me a favor
because they shunned me right away. And
so the only people that stuck with me
were the researchers and the scientists
and the the people that had been
demonized by the
by the FC people in the workshops. I got
to meet I got to meet those people.
>> Yeah.
>> And
they taught me a lot about why FC can't
work. It can't work as an independent it
can't
>> it's that the the technique itself is
deeply flawed. It cannot work as an
independent form of communication.
>> Yeah. Um, so for me going through the
testing and then having that um, access
to scientific information afterwards
clicked with my brain. It hasn't with
everybody,
>> but with my brain I was like, "Okay,
yeah, it can't work."
>> You know, they're going to they're going
to actually have to do the testing and
show me that it does work for me to
believe that it works.
>> Sure. And you went by the by the, you
know, buy the data and buy the evidence
and everything. It's it's honestly it's
really fascinating to talk to you
because when I you know again I had no
concept of any of this and I watched
that documentary and I go who are these
frauds? They're just taking the finger
and shoving them onto the letters that
they want him to go on to while the kid
is looking in the other direction. So I
it's it's good for me to kind of check
my own, you know, approach to it and go,
"Okay, hang on. There is something
happening clinically like they're
they're not they thought that that this
was working, right?" So,
>> well, you're not you're you're uh you're
kind of primed to um presume competence
is what they call it.
>> Yeah.
>> Um so, you're by questioning FC, they
they've sort of skewed it so that if you
question the technique of FC, you're
questioning people with disabilities.
>> Yes. Of course. That's how they get the
emotional response. Yeah.
>> Right. The other thing was that my local
university was promoting it and
stupid me, naive me was like, "Oh, they
vetted it. It must be true,
>> right? They they must have gone." And
that's not true either. um in this
particular case. So the the information
that I was getting about FC and how it
worked is largely misinformation
>> and it's based on emotion rather than
>> evidence. It's emotional manipulation to
disguise a particular grift. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Well, okay. So, my viewers
definitely came to that conclusion after
the first video. So, let's let's now get
to the meat of it. What? So, you had a
video. You got a strike from Kai. What
was the video? What was in it? And why
what was threatening about it to her?
>> Okay. So, I have a I have a website that
I um co-host called
facilitatedcommunication.org
and it's got all kinds of information um
systematic reviews, controlled studies,
opposition statements about facilitated
communication. And also I love that you
have that URL and not the people who are
using it for the grift. That's pretty
great.
>> Yeah. Which uh occasionally we actually
get people emailing us and asking for a
facilitator and I'm like well actually
FC doesn't work. You know if you here's
some studies you might want to look at.
>> Yeah.
>> Um anyway so uh uh the telepathy tapes
came out I believe um December 2024.
So the beginning of 2025, I started
getting these messages from parents and
um people who support our website and
have you heard about this telepathy
tapes thing?
>> Mhm.
>> So I listened to it and reviewed it, but
I realized that it was a podcast.
Um, and uh, you're not actually I I knew
right away that it was facilitated
communication
and um, I paid the 10 bucks to it was
behind a payw wall to to see these
telepathy tests that they did in the
videos. So I so I started doing um
critiques of the I use 16 seconds to
show um there's there's two different
types like the facilitated communication
has gone down two two roads. One is
touchbased FC which is what I was taught
where the person holds on to the wrist
of the person and they point to a
letterboard.
Well, by the mid 1990s,
um that was being debunked and publicly
and so facilitators um invented this new
form of facilitated communication where
the person holds a letterboard in the
air and the individual points towards
it. And so that's supposed to be
independent communication. And they're
they're um they're leaving out the fact
that the facilitators moving the board
around in the air so that the person can
select the letters.
>> Hit this one. Hit this.
>> Yeah,
>> it's ridiculous.
>> Well, after watching a bunch of videos,
like the the person being facilitated
has this target like the the like a
comfortable range of motion. Mhm.
>> So the facilitator just like moves the
board to to hit the finger like where
it's so the person just has to go like
this without any thinking. Anyway,
>> um so uh this person emailed me and
said, you know, I get the one where the
U facilitator is holding on to the
girl's face and moving around. I get
that that's facilitator queuing, but
this other one,
they're using rapid prompting method or
spelling to communicate and it doesn't
look like the facilitator is touching
the client. So um I reviewed that one.
It's a keel and his mother and um what I
figured out was that the mother was
using body movements and hand gestures
and the she wasn't touching her son. the
the letterboard was on the floor and he
was touching the letterboard, but she
was using in my
summation, you know, my analysis of the
video was that she was using hand
motions and body mo motions that were in
his peripheral range to show where on
the letterboard to touch.
>> Yeah, I think I saw the video she was
kind of like a little more left or like
a little more she was kind of Yeah.
using her hand like
>> and she moved her head back and she
shifted her body weight back. Um, every
once in a while she she'd point down and
like
>> So,
>> and if you watch enough, there's a very
clear correlation with her movement and
his movement and decisions. Yeah.
>> Yeah. It depends on the camera angle,
too. Um, they're they're really good.
I've done another one that that shows
that camera angles are are really
important.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, anyway, so I use 16 seconds
of one of their videotapes and they put
a copyright strike on my my vid and I
explained what I was seeing and why I
was saying, you know, like facilitator
cues and these are were some red flags
and blahy blah, you know, like
explaining my position.
>> Mhm.
>> They put a copyright strike on it. Um
and
um fortunately there's a lawyer that was
willing to help me. She's a skeptical
person and and saw right through FC and
telepathy and and offered to help. So,
we actually push back.
>> Um, it's just a bullying tactic. They
don't they don't want people to see it.
And if you do see it, they don't want
you to critique it.
>> They especially don't want to see the no
touch prompting because everybody can
wrap their head around, well, there he's
just pushing the finger, but then they
go, "No, no, no, this one's not
touching." Well, let's debunk that, too.
I think it's especially damning. Yeah.
>> Right. And that they also don't take
into consideration facilitator vocal
cues either. So that's another whole I
don't believe she used vocal cues in
this particular one. But when she's
standing um in one room and she's she's
holding a a board to the camera that
says house and supposedly is in the
background telepathically figuring out
that she's spelling out how. She's
giving him vocal cues,
>> right? um to to make that happen. It's
not telepathy. And see the thing the
thing with that their claims are about
telepathy. And if facilitation doesn't
work, then the telepathy aspect
completely falls apart.
>> Mhm.
>> So they don't they particularly don't
want people to
uh to debunk the FC part of it.
>> Yeah. Of course,
>> because they need FC to make the
telepathy part work.
>> Mhm.
Yeah, that's it. I mean, it's clear as
day. Um, I mean, I think it's absolutely
fascinating. I think what fascinates me
the most is that like it backfired so
badly. I mean, she like she wasn't able
to get this sensor the censorship to
stick on you. I think that you had
mentioned some other uh instances,
right? Did you uh Susan Gerbick, I think
you mentioned, or was there another case
of censorship?
>> So, that's happening. Yep. That's
happening right now. And the person I
just learned that the person's pushing
back. So, um it might be an interesting
>> um situation.
>> Yeah.
>> So, we there's a there's a person. So
this um FC and telepathy is there's
always been a like a fringe element
that's believed that FC and telepathy
have always gone hand in hand like um
and so this recent with the telepathy
tapes that aspect which has always been
in the fringe is now in the public view
and they're they're very adamant that FC
and telepathy are real and um that that
critics who um
uh like complain or or point out
problems with facilitated communication
and telepathy again are are ableist and
we're all against people with
disabilities and stuff.
>> Of course, always. Right.
>> I have an autistic son, but I hate
autistic people. Right. Yeah.
>> Right.
Right.
And so I forgot where I was going that
but um so this case is um somebody's
using rapid prompting methods. So the
kind of FC where the facilitator holds
the letterboard in the air. The person
is blind.
He um so for me that's a problem right
away.
>> He's not just legally blind, he's
actually has detached retinas. So he
cannot see. His eyes don't work. And
supposedly he's um also telepathic. He
uses remote remote viewing. So he the
the claim is that he he transports
somehow into his um facilitator's eyes
and that's how he can spell because he
looks through the her eyes and sees the
letterboard and spells out all these um
it happens to be like a lot of religious
um messages but it it wouldn't matter
what the context is you know he
>> sure yeah could spell anything yeah
>> he could spell anything and and So Sus
Susan and I took about seven less a
little bit less than 7 minutes of a an
hour and 30 minute interview that the
mom did with this this other person. Um,
it's Robbie's World is the is the
YouTube channel that's that's um put the
copyright strike
and we we just kind of looked at
facilitator queuing and control. So, you
know, let's look at the letterboard
moving in the air. Let's look at
physical queuing. Let's look at if
there's any verbal queuing, that kind of
thing. So we
>> um and and kind of went through all of
that and talked about why
um it's not likely
>> that those messages are are coming from
the client and um we also advocated for
double blind testing and if you're not
sure, you know, like
>> Yeah, of course.
>> Um
>> put the put them in a different room,
you know, cut off all possibility of any
kind of influence whatsoever. Oh, they
can't do it anymore. Funny how that
works, huh?
>> Um I don't know. To to me, I feel like
so, you know, we're talking about I
mean, after I got the strike, it came
like people began contacting me and
telling me about other instances of this
stuff. And to me, it just sounds like
Kai kind of like got her first season of
her podcast out, got a lot of uh buzz
around it, and then the inevitable
backlash, and you have all, you know,
all the debunking, and now that she had
momentum, and she's going, "Oh, I've got
season 2, and then I've got this movie
coming out, and whatever it is, and
she's just desperate to hang on to this
momentum and the and the debunking
activity is too much." And um I can't
believe that like she's trying to like
she tried to get away with it with you,
but I have a large channel. It's like
what did you think was going to happen?
Like this is like it's only going to get
worse for you. Like now I'm making this
video. Now I'm completely devoted to
just ruining her.
>> Um
>> well I mean there's a reason why she
made it a podcast
>> because she doesn't actually talk about
facilitated. I mean, I knew right from
the right from the first episode it was
facil because I've just been dealing
with this for a really long time.
>> Sure.
>> Um, but not everybody did and you know,
like it sounded um like, yeah, this
would be really cool if this could be
actually real. And and so she drew
people in first and then by episode
five, I think, is when she started
talking about FC and how the scientists
are close-minded and they want this to
fail and they're afraid of telepathy and
you know that whole that whole thing
came along. Um, and not everybody's
going to pay the 10 bucks to to see the
videos. And even if you do see the
videos, they don't know what they're
looking at.
>> You don't you might not know what I
mean. To me, it's
>> Yeah, you've been you've lived this
>> really obvious, but but it's because
I've been analyzing and I experienced
>> being a facilitator. So, my particular
interest in FC is facilitator behaviors.
And that's not what they want you to
look at. They want you to look at they
want you to look at the person being
facilitated and the messages that are
coming out these you know like amazing
poetry and they're going they've managed
to get a few people through college and
um
>> you know all that that's what they want
you to look at they don't want you to
look at the facilitator
>> Q incredible success stories. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so do you think like
is it I'm leaning towards just her
entire grift is crumbling before her
eyes and she's desperately scrambling to
silence any bit of content that exposes
her um because it's all falling apart
right in front of her eyes or do you
think that this is kind of just taking
off and she's going to get to the next
level with this? Is it taking off or is
it coming to a halt or somewhere in
between? What's your take on that? Well,
um, until the Woody Brown, I don't know
if you know about the Woody Brown.
Okay. So, Woody Brown, um, is this
person who's being facilitated by his
mom and he's managed to get through UCLA
and Colombia.
>> Oh, yeah. No. Yeah. I think
>> and and so he was on the Today Show and
supposedly facilitating, but the videos
that they showed on the Today Show and
this happened just within the last
couple weeks. I mean, like my email has
just been, you know, like exploded. Um,
and it it's so obvious that he's not
spelling out what he's supposed to be
spelling that even people who didn't
know about FC
are questioning it.
>> Right?
>> So, what I think is happening at the
moment is there's there's a lot of push
back right now. There's a lot of people
if they if those two things had been
separate or separated by a number of
years or even months I think that it
just would have you know usually it's
goes in cycles right so
>> in the in the 19 early 1990s nobody was
covering it and then the false
allegations of abuses came out and so in
1998
>> a lot of attention was given to it FC
went underground and then it's it's
popped back up as something else. And
>> yeah, we're all the way here and I had
never heard of it. You know what I mean?
>> So, we're in that arc like for for
somebody like me, we're in that arc of
the second wave where where spelling to
communicate and rapid prompting method
aren't FC because the facilitators hold
the is holding the letterboard in the
air.
>> Oh, wow. This is really cool. Everybody
buys into it. What a miracle. And then
something like the Woody Brown and the
telepathy tapes come along and people
start going, "Oh, wait a minute. We need
to look at this."
>> Yeah.
>> And so I think that's kind of what's
happening right now. I'm not sure
>> how far we'll get. Um I hope I hope that
it gets a lot of negative attention.
>> Um
>> well, I'll do my part.
>> I do not respond well to bullying, so uh
this is I'm going to put a lot more heat
on her. Uh, and uh, yeah, possibly we'll
see what the what, you know, what comes
of this video that I'm making right now
in talking to you and and uh, and uh,
yeah, possibly do yet another followup
skewing skewering her season two of her
podcast or something. So,
>> the way I look at it is it's it's pretty
human to fall for an illusion.
>> Mhm. But but
one of the reasons why we have our
website is so that uh people could find
information opposition statements
systematic reviews controlled studies at
a click of a button right I didn't have
that when I was going through
facilitated communication but that's one
of the reasons why we have the website
>> they also know and you could tell from
episode five they know what the problems
are with facilitated communication and
they're refusing to test it,
>> right?
>> So, where is that line between
like I think some of the parents that
are involved in the telepathy tapes may
be in that level where they really
wanted to believe and they're told being
told by an authority figure that it does
work. So, they're sort of being talked
into believing it.
>> Yeah.
>> But Kai Dickens is a documentarian.
Um Diane Hennessy Powell is supposed to
be uh an academic. Some of those other
experts that they had on the on the
telepathy tapes are supposed to be
academics
>> and they're supposed to know how to look
for reliably controlled evidence and
they are purposefully
>> downplaying it, ignoring they're saying
we want a paradigm change. Um
>> yeah,
>> people are against this entanglement and
>> right like all this blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah when it's really simple
>> the the problem with facilitated
communication that's been there right
from the ve very beginning is
facilitator queuing and control.
>> Yeah.
>> And I I think I have I have a lot of
compassion for people who fall for the
illusion.
>> Yeah. The parents are the victims. I
mean they're they they get our sympathy
of course. Yeah.
>> However,
what do you do when you come across the
evidence? So, if you're a parent that
come across an the evidence or a an
educator or a documentarian and you know
it's there.
>> Mhm.
>> Your first question should be, well, cuz
everybody, all the facilitators believe
they're the only ones on the planet that
the queueing and control doesn't apply
to them, right? They're not doing
they're they're good-hearted people.
They're not doing that.
>> However, the first question should be,
oh god, we better check this and make
sure,
>> right?
>> And that's the piece that's being left
out right now. And that's the piece
that's being people are being told it's
bad to ask those questions.
>> You're against people. I think they
called um me something like um
>> they use me as a as a example of a bad
facilitator in their workshops. because
I questioned it, right? And I came out
the other end saying, "Oh, no. This
doesn't work."
>> You uh Yeah. You're a bad facilitator
because you proved it doesn't work.
Yeah.
>> Right. Um I committed epistemological
violence. Yeah.
>> Um by speaking out against facilitated
communication.
>> No. Don't question the the central
doctrine of the cult or you will be
excommunicated. Of course.
>> Right. And you know, when I
people um along the way have asked me,
you know, periodically, do I think it's
a cult? In the early days, I I would I
would be like, you know, no, I don't I
don't think so. I think they're just
people like me that got caught up in it
and didn't really have enough
information to make a sound decision.
You know, my critical thinking skills
either were non-existent or they went
out the window cuz I really just wanted
it to work, right? So I'm thinking I'm
going along thinking that most
facilitators are like that. And then the
more I dig into it and the more I've
experienced facilitated communication
and push back um
there are people who actually knew that
that what the problem with this was that
were promoting it when they were
promoting it and they already knew that
it was so those are the people I have
the most problem with.
>> Yeah. It's not you exhibited very mild
bias but then corrected yourself when
the real heavy evidence came in. But
there are people who obvious, you know,
I'm sure that there are facilitators who
are financially compromised and you I
mean there have to be
>> well and you think about these these um
facilitators now that have been using FC
since um 1990.
>> Mhm.
>> So that's over 30 years.
>> Yeah. Um and Kai Dickens is also
um giving these people a platform like
these people on the fringe that believe
in telepathy. Like they believe that um
their son or daughter can put their hand
on a book without opening it and absorb
all the information.
>> Well, that that just isn't like when you
really look at what they're saying like
or independent communication isn't
somebody holding on to a letterboard for
you. Yeah. Independent communication is
you leave the room and I'm able to
spell.
>> Yeah,
>> that's independent communication. So
they they blur the lines with
augmentative and alternative
communication. They want you to believe
FC is is
>> it's is not, you know, like you can use
a letterboard legitimately for
augmentative and alternative
communication, but not the way they're
using it.
>> Yeah. And people outside of this world
who have no context, I think within a
minute of seeing this footage are like,
"What? This is not anything. What are
you guys talking about?" Right? That's
why the censorship has to has to come.
>> Well, and the danger what I see is the
danger is like now they're getting
people through college. They've they've
successfully the the validictorian of
Roland's College a few years ago was um
facilitated. Um there's somebody at
Vanderbilt getting his doctoral degree
in neuroscience
um using facilitated communication.
Woody Brown was just he just graduated
from Colombia and had graduated from
UCLA. Right? So there's these examples
of people graduating from college.
They're changing they're trying to
change um how people view autism based
on facilitated generated messaging.
>> Yeah. They're they're um they're
encouraging people to get married, have
intimate relationships. Um they're
making medical decisions based on
facilitated generated messaging. Um
>> I just imagine two severely autistic
individuals trying to get intimate with
their facilitators telling each other
what they want them to do to each other.
>> There's a song there's a song that was
written by somebody using facilitated
communication that's called four in the
bedroom. And the whole whole scenario is
that these two autistic people being
facilitated going in on this
>> harder.
>> Oh my god.
>> Oh, it's not what I signed up for as a
facilitator. I'm telling you right now,
no. No, no, no, no, no.
>> Um
>> but you know the the there um false
allegations of abuse cases are still
happening.
>> Guardianship issues are happening. So
the moms the the parents are separated.
the mom's the prim usually it's mom's is
the primary facilitator they're um all
of a sudden typing out I don't want to
go to dad's you know he's he's abusing
me when I go there so they they um
>> they're they're suing for guardianship
so um I know a person that was jailed
for 10 months before um one of his
family members found our website and we
were able to hook him up with some
expert witnesses um he was released from
jail after 10 months and and the the
judge actually um uh demanded double
blind testing, authorship testing, and
the facilitator refused. That's why the
>> that's so even court-ordered
testing, they're refusing to do that.
That's how that's how deep these people
are in facilitated communication.
>> Yeah.
>> Um that's the stuff that worries me.
>> Um
>> Yeah. Especially given the context of
what happened 30 years ago. How could
this possibly like just look at this
like look at what happened. It's exactly
this and you're letting it happen again.
Uh
>> yeah, it's interesting to me cuz I was I
was part of it as a facilitator when I
was going ear in the early days and then
um
>> but that's why your voice is among the
most valuable. I mean yeah you're
>> Well, I hope so. I hope so. Yeah.
>> Um, it depends on who you're talking to
cuz I'm vilified. Um, but I have there
have been people
>> So am I. What are you talking about? Of
course. Anybody who demons it's a
villain to them.
>> Right. Right. But
>> I'm coming at it from the outside.
You're coming at from the inside. So
it's Yeah. angles. And I hope when I
first started talking about this, like
the the people from the OD Hack Center
that the facilitators that spoke first
about FC that were in Prisoners of
Silence were kind of the people I look
up to. And then when I stepped out and
started speaking in public, I hoped
other people would follow. But
>> uh
>> yeah,
>> it's really hard to get it's
embarrassing. It's painful. Um you get
[\h__\h] on. You have to be willing to take
a certain amount of [\h__\h] from the
public. Not everybody wants to or can be
in the public eye. So, I hope that
>> Welcome to my world.
>> Exactly.
>> Pretty brutal, but Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I I hope that um you
were talking I was listening to a
podcast you did the other day about
science communicators.
I think people's
reaction to to facilitators is exactly
the one that you and it's a healthy one
like what the heck are these people
doing? Why are they doing this?
>> Yeah.
>> And that that's a valid question and it
should be asked and people should be
held accountable. But for the
facilitators that are willing to say I
made a mistake. I didn't realize what
what was happening here. Like with this
new information I can change my position
on this.
>> Right. then we need we need to find a
way to support those people and the
parents and um I happen to be really
lucky. it just lucked out that um people
stuck with me and I was um willing to
ask those questions, you know, like I
had enough of an analytical mind to
think, okay, this isn't
>> something's wrong in Whoville here, you
know, like um but that and and I've
helped develop a support network,
>> but but I think a lot of facilitators in
that position are like, "Oh, I can see
that this isn't
But what do I do? I'm the only person in
my community that is questioning this,
you know, how do I how do I maneuver
this? You know, do I stay silent? Do I
speak out and risk losing my family? You
know, there's there's a lot of things
that I think that
>> like a knee-jerk reaction is, oh, these
people, these facilitators are bad. But
I still think I mean and there's always
bad people in the mix, but I still think
that the rank and file facilitators are
just average Joe's and they're trying to
they're doing the best they can and
they're trying to help in the only way
and but they're being misinformed and
they're being led down a path that they
don't even know that they know is not
right.
>> Um and so that's that's the question
you're like how do we
>> how do we Yeah. How do we educate people
and support people in their efforts to
like once you once you real well we we
want people to to to not get into it
right from the start that would be
helpful.
>> Um
>> is there anywhere to anyone who might be
watching this uh is there anywhere I can
direct them to some kind of support or
where where can we send people to get
more info and and talk more with people
like you and you know that were part of
this. So, if you um visit
facilitatedcommunication.org,
there's a lot of information on there
and there's a contact form on there and
I'm the one that runs the email. So, if
you um uh use the contact form, I will
get in touch with you. I'll I'll reach
out to you and um depending on what you
need. Some people are just um looking
for information. There's a lot of
information on the website. I can help
you navigate that information. Um, both
there's there's two of us mainly that
put information on the website and we've
both read the majority of information on
there. So, we can help you navigate
that.
>> Some people are looking for expert
witnesses and to help with false
allegations of abuse cases, we can also
help with that.
>> And then anywhere in between, we'll just
try to figure it out. You know, people
aren't alone. We'll just try to we'll
try to figure it out.
>> Yeah, that's tremendous. That's
invaluable. So yeah, I just want to
thank you so much for the work that you
do and thanks for sharing your
perspective with me uh today. Thanks for
>> No, thanks for your Yeah, thanks for
asking me to be on your on your podcast.
I appreciate it.
>> Great chat, right? As you can see, Kai's
petty, sensorious nature will be a big
part of her downfall. You all know that
I debunk a lot of different stuff and
there was a very good chance that I
would have been satisfied with one video
about her and forgotten her completely
for other more pressing targets. But not
anymore. When you try to bully me, you
get bullied 10 times harder in return.
So all of you, including Kai, can look
forward to more content relentlessly
exposing Kai for the worthless fraud
that she is in the future. Until then,
thanks for watching.