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Hey everyone, as you know, I'm

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Hey everyone, as you know, I'm
 

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Hey everyone, as you know, I'm
fascinated by all things science,

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fascinated by all things science,
 

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fascinated by all things science,
including neuroscience. Brains are neat.

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including neuroscience. Brains are neat.
 

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including neuroscience. Brains are neat.
Many of you also know that I have kids.

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Many of you also know that I have kids.
 

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Many of you also know that I have kids.
I'm a daddy. As it turns out,

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I'm a daddy. As it turns out,
 

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I'm a daddy. As it turns out,
neuroscience and fatherhood intersect in

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neuroscience and fatherhood intersect in
 

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neuroscience and fatherhood intersect in
some pretty interesting ways. So, let's

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some pretty interesting ways. So, let's
 

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some pretty interesting ways. So, let's
talk about it. Those of you who also

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talk about it. Those of you who also
 

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talk about it. Those of you who also
have children would undoubtedly agree

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have children would undoubtedly agree
 

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have children would undoubtedly agree
that it's about as transformative an

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that it's about as transformative an
 

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that it's about as transformative an
experience as is physically possible.

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experience as is physically possible.
 

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experience as is physically possible.
Having kids is simultaneously the most

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Having kids is simultaneously the most
 

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Having kids is simultaneously the most
frustratingly difficult and intensely

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frustratingly difficult and intensely
 

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frustratingly difficult and intensely
joyful thing in my life. Society, we

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joyful thing in my life. Society, we
 

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joyful thing in my life. Society, we
talk a lot about mothers, the experience

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talk a lot about mothers, the experience
 

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talk a lot about mothers, the experience
of childbirth, and the incredible

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of childbirth, and the incredible
 

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of childbirth, and the incredible
psychological changes that occur through

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psychological changes that occur through
 

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psychological changes that occur through
pregnancy, delivery, and infancy. I've

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pregnancy, delivery, and infancy. I've
 

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pregnancy, delivery, and infancy. I've
watched that twice up close with my

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watched that twice up close with my
 

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watched that twice up close with my
own eyes, and it's bananas. Women go

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own eyes, and it's bananas. Women go
 

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own eyes, and it's bananas. Women go
through a lot to bring new humans into

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through a lot to bring new humans into
 

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through a lot to bring new humans into
the world. Of course, people can and

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the world. Of course, people can and
 

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the world. Of course, people can and
should talk about mothers and motherhood

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should talk about mothers and motherhood
 

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should talk about mothers and motherhood
all the time, but fatherhood is

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all the time, but fatherhood is
 

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all the time, but fatherhood is
sometimes overlooked and misunderstood,

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sometimes overlooked and misunderstood,
 

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sometimes overlooked and misunderstood,
given that there are biological and

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given that there are biological and
 

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given that there are biological and
psychological changes that occur with us

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psychological changes that occur with us
 

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psychological changes that occur with us
dads, too. Darby Saxby is a PhD

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dads, too. Darby Saxby is a PhD
 

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dads, too. Darby Saxby is a PhD
psychologist at USC who has been

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psychologist at USC who has been
 

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psychologist at USC who has been
researching precisely this topic which

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researching precisely this topic which
 

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researching precisely this topic which
is the subject of her new book Dad Brain

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is the subject of her new book Dad Brain
 

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is the subject of her new book Dad Brain
the new science of fatherhood and how it

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the new science of fatherhood and how it
 

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the new science of fatherhood and how it
shapes men's lives. It's all about the

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shapes men's lives. It's all about the
 

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shapes men's lives. It's all about the
neuroscience of becoming a papa and the

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neuroscience of becoming a papa and the
 

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neuroscience of becoming a papa and the
resulting physical ramifications. So

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resulting physical ramifications. So
 

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resulting physical ramifications. So
we're talking about hormones, behavior,

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we're talking about hormones, behavior,
 

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we're talking about hormones, behavior,
dadbod and more. The implications of

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dadbod and more. The implications of
 

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dadbod and more. The implications of
this research span neuroscience,

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this research span neuroscience,
 

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this research span neuroscience,
endocrinology, psychology and cultural

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endocrinology, psychology and cultural
 

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endocrinology, psychology and cultural
anthropology. So there's a lot to

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anthropology. So there's a lot to
 

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anthropology. So there's a lot to
discuss and who better to discuss this

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discuss and who better to discuss this
 

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discuss and who better to discuss this
research with than Darby herself. So

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research with than Darby herself. So
 

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research with than Darby herself. So
let's have a chat with her now.

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let's have a chat with her now.
 

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let's have a chat with her now.
>> Darby, thanks so much for joining us. Uh

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>> Darby, thanks so much for joining us. Uh
 

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>> Darby, thanks so much for joining us. Uh
why don't you introduce yourself real

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why don't you introduce yourself real
 

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why don't you introduce yourself real
quick? Tell us about uh you know who you

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quick? Tell us about uh you know who you
 

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quick? Tell us about uh you know who you
are, what you do.

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are, what you do.
 

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are, what you do.
>> Sure. Very happy to be here. I'm a

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>> Sure. Very happy to be here. I'm a
 

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>> Sure. Very happy to be here. I'm a
professor of psychology at the

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professor of psychology at the
 

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professor of psychology at the
University of Southern California. I run

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University of Southern California. I run
 

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University of Southern California. I run
a lab called the neuroendocrinology of

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a lab called the neuroendocrinology of
 

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a lab called the neuroendocrinology of
social ties. I study father's brains and

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social ties. I study father's brains and
 

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social ties. I study father's brains and
bodies. And I wrote this book, Dad

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bodies. And I wrote this book, Dad
 

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bodies. And I wrote this book, Dad
Brain, which is about the science of

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Brain, which is about the science of
 

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Brain, which is about the science of
fatherhood and how it changes men's

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fatherhood and how it changes men's
 

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fatherhood and how it changes men's
lives.

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lives.
 

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lives.
>> Very nice. Very sharp sharp looking

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>> Very nice. Very sharp sharp looking
 

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>> Very nice. Very sharp sharp looking
cover.

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cover.
 

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cover.
>> Thank you. I'm I'm a fan. You notice I'm

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>> Thank you. I'm I'm a fan. You notice I'm
 

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>> Thank you. I'm I'm a fan. You notice I'm
wearing the bicycle dress because it's a

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wearing the bicycle dress because it's a
 

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wearing the bicycle dress because it's a
bicycle cover. That's

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bicycle cover. That's
 

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bicycle cover. That's
>> There you go. Right. Integrate all the

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>> There you go. Right. Integrate all the
 

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>> There you go. Right. Integrate all the
integrate all the branding. That's a

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integrate all the branding. That's a
 

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integrate all the branding. That's a
good way to do it.

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good way to do it.
 

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good way to do it.
>> I hear that's what you're supposed to

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>> I hear that's what you're supposed to
 

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>> I hear that's what you're supposed to
do. Yeah.

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do. Yeah.
 

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do. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Very smart. So, what's the deal? I

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>> Yeah. Very smart. So, what's the deal? I
 

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>> Yeah. Very smart. So, what's the deal? I
mean like mothers carry the child, they

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mean like mothers carry the child, they
 

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mean like mothers carry the child, they
birth the child, they nurse the child or

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birth the child, they nurse the child or
 

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birth the child, they nurse the child or
mothers are where it's at. So what why

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mothers are where it's at. So what why
 

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mothers are where it's at. So what why
are we studying dads? Why is this

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are we studying dads? Why is this
 

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are we studying dads? Why is this
important? What brought you to this

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important? What brought you to this
 

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important? What brought you to this
field of study? Tell us about it.

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field of study? Tell us about it.
 

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field of study? Tell us about it.
>> Yeah. So I talk about this a little bit

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>> Yeah. So I talk about this a little bit
 

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>> Yeah. So I talk about this a little bit
in the book, but I was actually raised

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in the book, but I was actually raised
 

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in the book, but I was actually raised
by a half-time single dad. So uh after

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by a half-time single dad. So uh after
 

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by a half-time single dad. So uh after
my parents got divorced, my dad got

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my parents got divorced, my dad got
 

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my parents got divorced, my dad got
custody of us initially. And so my

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custody of us initially. And so my
 

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custody of us initially. And so my
brothers and my sister and I spent a

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brothers and my sister and I spent a
 

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brothers and my sister and I spent a
week with our dad as the primary solo

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week with our dad as the primary solo
 

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week with our dad as the primary solo
caregiver and a week with uh my mom and

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caregiver and a week with uh my mom and
 

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caregiver and a week with uh my mom and
and our new stepdad. And so I saw my dad

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and our new stepdad. And so I saw my dad
 

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and our new stepdad. And so I saw my dad
go from very checked out, not super

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go from very checked out, not super
 

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go from very checked out, not super
hands-on parent to like the guy that was

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hands-on parent to like the guy that was
 

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hands-on parent to like the guy that was
in charge of everything, helped us with

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in charge of everything, helped us with
 

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in charge of everything, helped us with
our homework, um drove us to school, uh

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our homework, um drove us to school, uh
 

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our homework, um drove us to school, uh
taught me how to drive, and he became

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taught me how to drive, and he became
 

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taught me how to drive, and he became
this amazing dad. And so watching him go

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this amazing dad. And so watching him go
 

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this amazing dad. And so watching him go
through that transformation made me

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through that transformation made me
 

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through that transformation made me
really think about why is it that some

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really think about why is it that some
 

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really think about why is it that some
human men kind of turn on the ability to

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human men kind of turn on the ability to
 

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human men kind of turn on the ability to
parent and prioritize parenting and

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parent and prioritize parenting and
 

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parent and prioritize parenting and
others might be absentee and we have

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others might be absentee and we have
 

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others might be absentee and we have
this huge variability in fathering

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this huge variability in fathering
 

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this huge variability in fathering
behavior and I think you know in science

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behavior and I think you know in science
 

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behavior and I think you know in science
when there's variability there's

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when there's variability there's
 

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when there's variability there's
interest right we want to study

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interest right we want to study
 

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interest right we want to study
phenomena that varies so like you said

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phenomena that varies so like you said
 

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phenomena that varies so like you said
like the field has focused on mothers

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like the field has focused on mothers
 

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like the field has focused on mothers
And mothers are obviously incredibly

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And mothers are obviously incredibly
 

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And mothers are obviously incredibly
important for the survival of our

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important for the survival of our
 

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important for the survival of our
species, but we humans have adapted to

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species, but we humans have adapted to
 

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species, but we humans have adapted to
be cooperative breeders. So, we're alo

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be cooperative breeders. So, we're alo
 

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be cooperative breeders. So, we're alo
parents. What that means is that we

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parents. What that means is that we
 

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parents. What that means is that we
parent in community and that makes us

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parent in community and that makes us
 

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parent in community and that makes us
actually quite unique. So, most mammals,

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actually quite unique. So, most mammals,
 

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actually quite unique. So, most mammals,
uh, mom is really the the only um

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uh, mom is really the the only um
 

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uh, mom is really the the only um
caregiver who matters, right? Like

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caregiver who matters, right? Like
 

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caregiver who matters, right? Like
>> mom is out of the picture. Um, that

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>> mom is out of the picture. Um, that
 

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>> mom is out of the picture. Um, that
newborn is not going to survive. But we

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newborn is not going to survive. But we
 

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newborn is not going to survive. But we
humans, we have alo maternal nursing, we

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humans, we have alo maternal nursing, we
 

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humans, we have alo maternal nursing, we
have community caregiving, we have

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have community caregiving, we have
 

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have community caregiving, we have
grandparent care, and a lot of the time

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grandparent care, and a lot of the time
 

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grandparent care, and a lot of the time
we also have father care. So, um, trying

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we also have father care. So, um, trying
 

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we also have father care. So, um, trying
to figure out what the sources of

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to figure out what the sources of
 

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to figure out what the sources of
variability are in fathering behavior is

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variability are in fathering behavior is
 

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variability are in fathering behavior is
really interesting to me and how that

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really interesting to me and how that
 

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really interesting to me and how that
intersects with our brain and our

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intersects with our brain and our
 

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intersects with our brain and our
biology, right? like as fathers become

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biology, right? like as fathers become
 

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biology, right? like as fathers become
more involved in care, their brain and

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more involved in care, their brain and
 

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more involved in care, their brain and
their hormones start to adapt to that

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their hormones start to adapt to that
 

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their hormones start to adapt to that
caregiving role.

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caregiving role.
 

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caregiving role.
>> Right. So, it's very interesting because

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>> Right. So, it's very interesting because
 

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>> Right. So, it's very interesting because
yeah, I mean there are obviously the

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yeah, I mean there are obviously the
 

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yeah, I mean there are obviously the
tropes of the absentee father and then

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tropes of the absentee father and then
 

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tropes of the absentee father and then
just statistically you know women are

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just statistically you know women are
 

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just statistically you know women are
are almost always highly highly involved

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are almost always highly highly involved
 

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are almost always highly highly involved
with their children although obviously

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with their children although obviously
 

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with their children although obviously
there are counterexamples but uh but

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there are counterexamples but uh but
 

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there are counterexamples but uh but
yeah it it makes you wonder are we

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yeah it it makes you wonder are we
 

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yeah it it makes you wonder are we
talking about biological factors? Are

262
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talking about biological factors? Are
 

263
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talking about biological factors? Are
there anthropological right sociological

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there anthropological right sociological
 

265
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there anthropological right sociological
factors? Where do those all intersect?

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factors? Where do those all intersect?
 

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factors? Where do those all intersect?
Um, but yeah, I mean it's I I guess in

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Um, but yeah, I mean it's I I guess in
 

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Um, but yeah, I mean it's I I guess in
so far as we're discussing the

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so far as we're discussing the
 

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so far as we're discussing the
neuroscience of it, what what can we say

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neuroscience of it, what what can we say
 

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neuroscience of it, what what can we say
about the actual paternal brain and the

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about the actual paternal brain and the
 

275
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about the actual paternal brain and the
transition? Like let's get into the

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transition? Like let's get into the
 

277
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transition? Like let's get into the
nitty-gritty of the neuroscience.

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nitty-gritty of the neuroscience.
 

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nitty-gritty of the neuroscience.
Mothers, we know what's going on there

280
00:05:06,790 --> 00:05:06,800
Mothers, we know what's going on there
 

281
00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,510
Mothers, we know what's going on there
to create the pair bonding fathers where

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to create the pair bonding fathers where
 

283
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to create the pair bonding fathers where
where what's happening in the in the dad

284
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where what's happening in the in the dad
 

285
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where what's happening in the in the dad
brain there.

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00:05:12,150 --> 00:05:12,160
brain there.
 

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brain there.
>> Yes, I will tell you all about it, but

288
00:05:13,670 --> 00:05:13,680
>> Yes, I will tell you all about it, but
 

289
00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:14,629
>> Yes, I will tell you all about it, but
we should circle back to the

290
00:05:14,629 --> 00:05:14,639
we should circle back to the
 

291
00:05:14,639 --> 00:05:16,070
we should circle back to the
anthropology because that's very

292
00:05:16,070 --> 00:05:16,080
anthropology because that's very
 

293
00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,029
anthropology because that's very
interesting too. But um in terms of the

294
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interesting too. But um in terms of the
 

295
00:05:19,039 --> 00:05:21,510
interesting too. But um in terms of the
paternal brains, so I'll actually start

296
00:05:21,510 --> 00:05:21,520
paternal brains, so I'll actually start
 

297
00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,189
paternal brains, so I'll actually start
with what we know about what's changing

298
00:05:23,189 --> 00:05:23,199
with what we know about what's changing
 

299
00:05:23,199 --> 00:05:26,550
with what we know about what's changing
in mom's brains, which was um a lot of

300
00:05:26,550 --> 00:05:26,560
in mom's brains, which was um a lot of
 

301
00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,629
in mom's brains, which was um a lot of
what we know comes from a 2016 Nature

302
00:05:28,629 --> 00:05:28,639
what we know comes from a 2016 Nature
 

303
00:05:28,639 --> 00:05:30,950
what we know comes from a 2016 Nature
neuroscience paper that looked at a

304
00:05:30,950 --> 00:05:30,960
neuroscience paper that looked at a
 

305
00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:32,390
neuroscience paper that looked at a
sample of women recruited from a

306
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sample of women recruited from a
 

307
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sample of women recruited from a
fertility clinic, some of whom went on

308
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fertility clinic, some of whom went on
 

309
00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:36,469
fertility clinic, some of whom went on
to become mothers during the study

310
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to become mothers during the study
 

311
00:05:36,479 --> 00:05:38,629
to become mothers during the study
period, some of whom remained

312
00:05:38,629 --> 00:05:38,639
period, some of whom remained
 

313
00:05:38,639 --> 00:05:41,270
period, some of whom remained
non-mothers. And the changes to the

314
00:05:41,270 --> 00:05:41,280
non-mothers. And the changes to the
 

315
00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:43,350
non-mothers. And the changes to the
women's brains were so profound that a

316
00:05:43,350 --> 00:05:43,360
women's brains were so profound that a
 

317
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:44,790
women's brains were so profound that a
machine learning algorithm could

318
00:05:44,790 --> 00:05:44,800
machine learning algorithm could
 

319
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,029
machine learning algorithm could
actually figure out who had become a

320
00:05:47,029 --> 00:05:47,039
actually figure out who had become a
 

321
00:05:47,039 --> 00:05:48,629
actually figure out who had become a
mother and who had not become a mother

322
00:05:48,629 --> 00:05:48,639
mother and who had not become a mother
 

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00:05:48,639 --> 00:05:50,469
mother and who had not become a mother
just by looking at at what was different

324
00:05:50,469 --> 00:05:50,479
just by looking at at what was different
 

325
00:05:50,479 --> 00:05:51,590
just by looking at at what was different
in the brain.

326
00:05:51,590 --> 00:05:51,600
in the brain.
 

327
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,909
in the brain.
>> And what was happening in women's brains

328
00:05:53,909 --> 00:05:53,919
>> And what was happening in women's brains
 

329
00:05:53,919 --> 00:05:55,430
>> And what was happening in women's brains
was actually and

330
00:05:55,430 --> 00:05:55,440
was actually and
 

331
00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,189
was actually and
>> this sounds like bad news. We actually

332
00:05:57,189 --> 00:05:57,199
>> this sounds like bad news. We actually
 

333
00:05:57,199 --> 00:05:58,790
>> this sounds like bad news. We actually
think it's good and adaptive. The brain

334
00:05:58,790 --> 00:05:58,800
think it's good and adaptive. The brain
 

335
00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,070
think it's good and adaptive. The brain
is losing gray matter volume. So um we

336
00:06:02,070 --> 00:06:02,080
is losing gray matter volume. So um we
 

337
00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,230
is losing gray matter volume. So um we
are shrinking. our brains are shrinking

338
00:06:04,230 --> 00:06:04,240
are shrinking. our brains are shrinking
 

339
00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,270
are shrinking. our brains are shrinking
and um that's probably a process of

340
00:06:07,270 --> 00:06:07,280
and um that's probably a process of
 

341
00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:09,830
and um that's probably a process of
remodeling um pruning to make the brain

342
00:06:09,830 --> 00:06:09,840
remodeling um pruning to make the brain
 

343
00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:11,430
remodeling um pruning to make the brain
work more efficiently

344
00:06:11,430 --> 00:06:11,440
work more efficiently
 

345
00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,710
work more efficiently
>> and um helping us connect more between

346
00:06:14,710 --> 00:06:14,720
>> and um helping us connect more between
 

347
00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,390
>> and um helping us connect more between
specific pathways that we're using a

348
00:06:16,390 --> 00:06:16,400
specific pathways that we're using a
 

349
00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,390
specific pathways that we're using a
lot. So the parts of the brain that lose

350
00:06:18,390 --> 00:06:18,400
lot. So the parts of the brain that lose
 

351
00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,710
lot. So the parts of the brain that lose
gray matter volume in moms are those

352
00:06:20,710 --> 00:06:20,720
gray matter volume in moms are those
 

353
00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:22,230
gray matter volume in moms are those
that are implicated in what we call the

354
00:06:22,230 --> 00:06:22,240
that are implicated in what we call the
 

355
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,950
that are implicated in what we call the
mentalizing network, which is a couple

356
00:06:24,950 --> 00:06:24,960
mentalizing network, which is a couple
 

357
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,029
mentalizing network, which is a couple
of different um structures that work

358
00:06:27,029 --> 00:06:27,039
of different um structures that work
 

359
00:06:27,039 --> 00:06:29,350
of different um structures that work
together when we're thinking about other

360
00:06:29,350 --> 00:06:29,360
together when we're thinking about other
 

361
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,390
together when we're thinking about other
people's minds. And um we're when we're

362
00:06:32,390 --> 00:06:32,400
people's minds. And um we're when we're
 

363
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,749
people's minds. And um we're when we're
engaged in social cognition. So um when

364
00:06:35,749 --> 00:06:35,759
engaged in social cognition. So um when
 

365
00:06:35,759 --> 00:06:37,270
engaged in social cognition. So um when
you are a new parent, you're using your

366
00:06:37,270 --> 00:06:37,280
you are a new parent, you're using your
 

367
00:06:37,280 --> 00:06:39,350
you are a new parent, you're using your
mentalizing network a lot because you

368
00:06:39,350 --> 00:06:39,360
mentalizing network a lot because you
 

369
00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,070
mentalizing network a lot because you
have to cultivate empathy for this

370
00:06:42,070 --> 00:06:42,080
have to cultivate empathy for this
 

371
00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,390
have to cultivate empathy for this
helpless infant, right? Moms are also

372
00:06:44,390 --> 00:06:44,400
helpless infant, right? Moms are also
 

373
00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,870
helpless infant, right? Moms are also
showing changes to the reward network um

374
00:06:46,870 --> 00:06:46,880
showing changes to the reward network um
 

375
00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:48,469
showing changes to the reward network um
and parts of what we consider like the

376
00:06:48,469 --> 00:06:48,479
and parts of what we consider like the
 

377
00:06:48,479 --> 00:06:50,629
and parts of what we consider like the
midbrain mamalian care caregiving

378
00:06:50,629 --> 00:06:50,639
midbrain mamalian care caregiving
 

379
00:06:50,639 --> 00:06:51,749
midbrain mamalian care caregiving
network

380
00:06:51,749 --> 00:06:51,759
network
 

381
00:06:51,759 --> 00:06:54,550
network
>> um in dads. So okay, I I read this

382
00:06:54,550 --> 00:06:54,560
>> um in dads. So okay, I I read this
 

383
00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:55,990
>> um in dads. So okay, I I read this
study. I thought it was so cool. I

384
00:06:55,990 --> 00:06:56,000
study. I thought it was so cool. I
 

385
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,909
study. I thought it was so cool. I
hopped on a plane. and I did a fullbrite

386
00:06:57,909 --> 00:06:57,919
hopped on a plane. and I did a fullbrite
 

387
00:06:57,919 --> 00:07:00,230
hopped on a plane. and I did a fullbrite
to Spain to work with the investigators

388
00:07:00,230 --> 00:07:00,240
to Spain to work with the investigators
 

389
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,350
to Spain to work with the investigators
who had published this work. They had a

390
00:07:03,350 --> 00:07:03,360
who had published this work. They had a
 

391
00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,350
who had published this work. They had a
sample of fathers who were the partners

392
00:07:05,350 --> 00:07:05,360
sample of fathers who were the partners
 

393
00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,589
sample of fathers who were the partners
of the women from the fertility clinic

394
00:07:07,589 --> 00:07:07,599
of the women from the fertility clinic
 

395
00:07:07,599 --> 00:07:10,390
of the women from the fertility clinic
and we combined that data with data that

396
00:07:10,390 --> 00:07:10,400
and we combined that data with data that
 

397
00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,110
and we combined that data with data that
I had collected in my lab at USC. So I

398
00:07:13,110 --> 00:07:13,120
I had collected in my lab at USC. So I
 

399
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,589
I had collected in my lab at USC. So I
had scanned soon to be fathers when

400
00:07:15,589 --> 00:07:15,599
had scanned soon to be fathers when
 

401
00:07:15,599 --> 00:07:17,029
had scanned soon to be fathers when
their partners were pregnant and then

402
00:07:17,029 --> 00:07:17,039
their partners were pregnant and then
 

403
00:07:17,039 --> 00:07:19,350
their partners were pregnant and then
again about six months after birth. We

404
00:07:19,350 --> 00:07:19,360
again about six months after birth. We
 

405
00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:21,189
again about six months after birth. We
combined those samples. We found that

406
00:07:21,189 --> 00:07:21,199
combined those samples. We found that
 

407
00:07:21,199 --> 00:07:23,110
combined those samples. We found that
men were showing changes in the same

408
00:07:23,110 --> 00:07:23,120
men were showing changes in the same
 

409
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,430
men were showing changes in the same
parts of the brain as the mothers, but

410
00:07:25,430 --> 00:07:25,440
parts of the brain as the mothers, but
 

411
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,909
parts of the brain as the mothers, but
the changes were more nuanced um more

412
00:07:27,909 --> 00:07:27,919
the changes were more nuanced um more
 

413
00:07:27,919 --> 00:07:31,430
the changes were more nuanced um more
variable and more linked to paternal

414
00:07:31,430 --> 00:07:31,440
variable and more linked to paternal
 

415
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,510
variable and more linked to paternal
experience, you know. So, we know like

416
00:07:33,510 --> 00:07:33,520
experience, you know. So, we know like
 

417
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,830
experience, you know. So, we know like
you said that moms are all quite

418
00:07:35,830 --> 00:07:35,840
you said that moms are all quite
 

419
00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,189
you said that moms are all quite
involved in taking care of offspring and

420
00:07:39,189 --> 00:07:39,199
involved in taking care of offspring and
 

421
00:07:39,199 --> 00:07:41,749
involved in taking care of offspring and
pregnancy brings all of these hormones

422
00:07:41,749 --> 00:07:41,759
pregnancy brings all of these hormones
 

423
00:07:41,759 --> 00:07:43,670
pregnancy brings all of these hormones
that are acting on the brain.

424
00:07:43,670 --> 00:07:43,680
that are acting on the brain.
 

425
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,909
that are acting on the brain.
>> Uh men show hormonal changes too around

426
00:07:45,909 --> 00:07:45,919
>> Uh men show hormonal changes too around
 

427
00:07:45,919 --> 00:07:47,270
>> Uh men show hormonal changes too around
the transition to parenthood, but

428
00:07:47,270 --> 00:07:47,280
the transition to parenthood, but
 

429
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,629
the transition to parenthood, but
they're not as um profound. And um and

430
00:07:50,629 --> 00:07:50,639
they're not as um profound. And um and
 

431
00:07:50,639 --> 00:07:52,469
they're not as um profound. And um and
so what we think is happening dads is

432
00:07:52,469 --> 00:07:52,479
so what we think is happening dads is
 

433
00:07:52,479 --> 00:07:54,150
so what we think is happening dads is
much more like a story of experience

434
00:07:54,150 --> 00:07:54,160
much more like a story of experience
 

435
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,710
much more like a story of experience
dependent plasticity. The more dads are

436
00:07:56,710 --> 00:07:56,720
dependent plasticity. The more dads are
 

437
00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,710
dependent plasticity. The more dads are
engaging with babies and the more um

438
00:08:00,710 --> 00:08:00,720
engaging with babies and the more um
 

439
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,950
engaging with babies and the more um
experience they're getting, the more we

440
00:08:02,950 --> 00:08:02,960
experience they're getting, the more we
 

441
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,629
experience they're getting, the more we
see this parental brain remodeling. So I

442
00:08:06,629 --> 00:08:06,639
see this parental brain remodeling. So I
 

443
00:08:06,639 --> 00:08:09,350
see this parental brain remodeling. So I
always say like great fathers are made

444
00:08:09,350 --> 00:08:09,360
always say like great fathers are made
 

445
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:10,629
always say like great fathers are made
not born. Mhm.

446
00:08:10,629 --> 00:08:10,639
not born. Mhm.
 

447
00:08:10,639 --> 00:08:12,550
not born. Mhm.
>> Um I think we often think about and you

448
00:08:12,550 --> 00:08:12,560
>> Um I think we often think about and you
 

449
00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,629
>> Um I think we often think about and you
hear this a lot in narratives around

450
00:08:14,629 --> 00:08:14,639
hear this a lot in narratives around
 

451
00:08:14,639 --> 00:08:18,710
hear this a lot in narratives around
moms like moms are um you know innately

452
00:08:18,710 --> 00:08:18,720
moms like moms are um you know innately
 

453
00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,510
moms like moms are um you know innately
wired to take care of children and it's

454
00:08:21,510 --> 00:08:21,520
wired to take care of children and it's
 

455
00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:22,950
wired to take care of children and it's
I mean I find that quite gender

456
00:08:22,950 --> 00:08:22,960
I mean I find that quite gender
 

457
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,350
I mean I find that quite gender
essentialist and not quite accurate but

458
00:08:25,350 --> 00:08:25,360
essentialist and not quite accurate but
 

459
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,589
essentialist and not quite accurate but
it's less about being innately wired for

460
00:08:27,589 --> 00:08:27,599
it's less about being innately wired for
 

461
00:08:27,599 --> 00:08:29,749
it's less about being innately wired for
something to automatically happen. It's

462
00:08:29,749 --> 00:08:29,759
something to automatically happen. It's
 

463
00:08:29,759 --> 00:08:32,070
something to automatically happen. It's
more about how does the brain change as

464
00:08:32,070 --> 00:08:32,080
more about how does the brain change as
 

465
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,350
more about how does the brain change as
we learn and develop experience and that

466
00:08:35,350 --> 00:08:35,360
we learn and develop experience and that
 

467
00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,269
we learn and develop experience and that
certainly seems to be what's pointing to

468
00:08:37,269 --> 00:08:37,279
certainly seems to be what's pointing to
 

469
00:08:37,279 --> 00:08:40,230
certainly seems to be what's pointing to
some of the variability in dads. Yeah.

470
00:08:40,230 --> 00:08:40,240
some of the variability in dads. Yeah.
 

471
00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,230
some of the variability in dads. Yeah.
Because I mean a woman doesn't have a

472
00:08:42,230 --> 00:08:42,240
Because I mean a woman doesn't have a
 

473
00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:43,509
Because I mean a woman doesn't have a
choice in the matter, right? There's

474
00:08:43,509 --> 00:08:43,519
choice in the matter, right? There's
 

475
00:08:43,519 --> 00:08:45,829
choice in the matter, right? There's
there's uh you know there there's a a

476
00:08:45,829 --> 00:08:45,839
there's uh you know there there's a a
 

477
00:08:45,839 --> 00:08:47,910
there's uh you know there there's a a
fetus growing and there's going to be a

478
00:08:47,910 --> 00:08:47,920
fetus growing and there's going to be a
 

479
00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,630
fetus growing and there's going to be a
physiological response. Whereas I think

480
00:08:50,630 --> 00:08:50,640
physiological response. Whereas I think
 

481
00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,790
physiological response. Whereas I think
for us so so I mean in terms of

482
00:08:52,790 --> 00:08:52,800
for us so so I mean in terms of
 

483
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,870
for us so so I mean in terms of
experience like does it really start the

484
00:08:54,870 --> 00:08:54,880
experience like does it really start the
 

485
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,910
experience like does it really start the
moment you see the child or or does it

486
00:08:57,910 --> 00:08:57,920
moment you see the child or or does it
 

487
00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,230
moment you see the child or or does it
take time of interacting with the infant

488
00:09:00,230 --> 00:09:00,240
take time of interacting with the infant
 

489
00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,870
take time of interacting with the infant
or what what about that first moment? Is

490
00:09:02,870 --> 00:09:02,880
or what what about that first moment? Is
 

491
00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:04,470
or what what about that first moment? Is
there a lot we can say about that?

492
00:09:04,470 --> 00:09:04,480
there a lot we can say about that?
 

493
00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:05,990
there a lot we can say about that?
>> Yeah it's interesting. thing. I have a

494
00:09:05,990 --> 00:09:06,000
>> Yeah it's interesting. thing. I have a
 

495
00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,070
>> Yeah it's interesting. thing. I have a
chapter in the book about birth, dad's

496
00:09:08,070 --> 00:09:08,080
chapter in the book about birth, dad's
 

497
00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,550
chapter in the book about birth, dad's
experience of birth. And I it like it

498
00:09:10,550 --> 00:09:10,560
experience of birth. And I it like it
 

499
00:09:10,560 --> 00:09:12,070
experience of birth. And I it like it
for a lot of men, I think they would

500
00:09:12,070 --> 00:09:12,080
for a lot of men, I think they would
 

501
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:13,990
for a lot of men, I think they would
pinpoint that seeing their baby when

502
00:09:13,990 --> 00:09:14,000
pinpoint that seeing their baby when
 

503
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,829
pinpoint that seeing their baby when
their baby is first born is this really

504
00:09:15,829 --> 00:09:15,839
their baby is first born is this really
 

505
00:09:15,839 --> 00:09:19,829
their baby is first born is this really
meaningful transformative moment. But um

506
00:09:19,829 --> 00:09:19,839
meaningful transformative moment. But um
 

507
00:09:19,839 --> 00:09:22,150
meaningful transformative moment. But um
it varies, right? Like I think for a lot

508
00:09:22,150 --> 00:09:22,160
it varies, right? Like I think for a lot
 

509
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,630
it varies, right? Like I think for a lot
of men, it's just about those like many,

510
00:09:24,630 --> 00:09:24,640
of men, it's just about those like many,
 

511
00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,470
of men, it's just about those like many,
many, many little interactions that you

512
00:09:26,470 --> 00:09:26,480
many, many little interactions that you
 

513
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,230
many, many little interactions that you
have as you're getting to know a baby or

514
00:09:28,230 --> 00:09:28,240
have as you're getting to know a baby or
 

515
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:28,870
have as you're getting to know a baby or
a child,

516
00:09:28,870 --> 00:09:28,880
a child,
 

517
00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:29,430
a child,
>> right?

518
00:09:29,430 --> 00:09:29,440
>> right?
 

519
00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,750
>> right?
>> And it can maybe take years for dads to

520
00:09:31,750 --> 00:09:31,760
>> And it can maybe take years for dads to
 

521
00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:33,990
>> And it can maybe take years for dads to
feel like they've fully developed that

522
00:09:33,990 --> 00:09:34,000
feel like they've fully developed that
 

523
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,550
feel like they've fully developed that
bond. So, I mean, moms kind of have a

524
00:09:36,550 --> 00:09:36,560
bond. So, I mean, moms kind of have a
 

525
00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:38,070
bond. So, I mean, moms kind of have a
head start, right? Because during

526
00:09:38,070 --> 00:09:38,080
head start, right? Because during
 

527
00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,710
head start, right? Because during
pregnancy, you're already feeling the

528
00:09:40,710 --> 00:09:40,720
pregnancy, you're already feeling the
 

529
00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,790
pregnancy, you're already feeling the
fetus. You're already aware that there's

530
00:09:42,790 --> 00:09:42,800
fetus. You're already aware that there's
 

531
00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:44,790
fetus. You're already aware that there's
this this creature growing inside of

532
00:09:44,790 --> 00:09:44,800
this this creature growing inside of
 

533
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:45,750
this this creature growing inside of
you.

534
00:09:45,750 --> 00:09:45,760
you.
 

535
00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:47,990
you.
>> And um and dads sort of have to play

536
00:09:47,990 --> 00:09:48,000
>> And um and dads sort of have to play
 

537
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,790
>> And um and dads sort of have to play
catch-up. And a lot of men really

538
00:09:50,790 --> 00:09:50,800
catch-up. And a lot of men really
 

539
00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,190
catch-up. And a lot of men really
struggle in the first year or two after

540
00:09:53,190 --> 00:09:53,200
struggle in the first year or two after
 

541
00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:54,710
struggle in the first year or two after
parenthood because there's just less for

542
00:09:54,710 --> 00:09:54,720
parenthood because there's just less for
 

543
00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:56,230
parenthood because there's just less for
them to do, especially if mom is

544
00:09:56,230 --> 00:09:56,240
them to do, especially if mom is
 

545
00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:57,030
them to do, especially if mom is
breastfeeding.

546
00:09:57,030 --> 00:09:57,040
breastfeeding.
 

547
00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:57,350
breastfeeding.
>> Yeah.

548
00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:57,360
>> Yeah.
 

549
00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,350
>> Yeah.
>> Um their role is they feel a little more

550
00:09:59,350 --> 00:09:59,360
>> Um their role is they feel a little more
 

551
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:00,550
>> Um their role is they feel a little more
like an appendage.

552
00:10:00,550 --> 00:10:00,560
like an appendage.
 

553
00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:00,949
like an appendage.
>> Yeah.

554
00:10:00,949 --> 00:10:00,959
>> Yeah.
 

555
00:10:00,959 --> 00:10:01,590
>> Yeah.
>> But um

556
00:10:01,590 --> 00:10:01,600
>> But um
 

557
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:02,870
>> But um
>> I'm the assistant, you know?

558
00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:02,880
>> I'm the assistant, you know?
 

559
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,630
>> I'm the assistant, you know?
>> Yeah. Exactly. like I'm the helper. I'm

560
00:10:04,630 --> 00:10:04,640
>> Yeah. Exactly. like I'm the helper. I'm
 

561
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:05,829
>> Yeah. Exactly. like I'm the helper. I'm
not the star of the show,

562
00:10:05,829 --> 00:10:05,839
not the star of the show,
 

563
00:10:05,839 --> 00:10:06,310
not the star of the show,
>> right?

564
00:10:06,310 --> 00:10:06,320
>> right?
 

565
00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,110
>> right?
>> Um and that can be hard for a lot of uh

566
00:10:09,110 --> 00:10:09,120
>> Um and that can be hard for a lot of uh
 

567
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:10,230
>> Um and that can be hard for a lot of uh
new dads.

568
00:10:10,230 --> 00:10:10,240
new dads.
 

569
00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,150
new dads.
>> Um I interviewed a lot of dads for the

570
00:10:12,150 --> 00:10:12,160
>> Um I interviewed a lot of dads for the
 

571
00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,069
>> Um I interviewed a lot of dads for the
book and you know some of them said like

572
00:10:14,069 --> 00:10:14,079
book and you know some of them said like
 

573
00:10:14,079 --> 00:10:16,069
book and you know some of them said like
my relationship with my kids really

574
00:10:16,069 --> 00:10:16,079
my relationship with my kids really
 

575
00:10:16,079 --> 00:10:17,750
my relationship with my kids really
kickstarted after they could play

576
00:10:17,750 --> 00:10:17,760
kickstarted after they could play
 

577
00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,030
kickstarted after they could play
sports, after I could teach them things.

578
00:10:21,030 --> 00:10:21,040
sports, after I could teach them things.
 

579
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,190
sports, after I could teach them things.
So I think every dad finds his own way

580
00:10:23,190 --> 00:10:23,200
So I think every dad finds his own way
 

581
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,350
So I think every dad finds his own way
into parenthood, but it doesn't always

582
00:10:25,350 --> 00:10:25,360
into parenthood, but it doesn't always
 

583
00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,829
into parenthood, but it doesn't always
look exactly like mom's story.

584
00:10:27,829 --> 00:10:27,839
look exactly like mom's story.
 

585
00:10:27,839 --> 00:10:29,990
look exactly like mom's story.
>> No, of course. And I I resonate with

586
00:10:29,990 --> 00:10:30,000
>> No, of course. And I I resonate with
 

587
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,990
>> No, of course. And I I resonate with
that. I mean, it's like I, you know, I I

588
00:10:31,990 --> 00:10:32,000
that. I mean, it's like I, you know, I I
 

589
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,030
that. I mean, it's like I, you know, I I
watched two people come out of my wife

590
00:10:35,030 --> 00:10:35,040
watched two people come out of my wife
 

591
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,990
watched two people come out of my wife
and it was the most intense experiences

592
00:10:37,990 --> 00:10:38,000
and it was the most intense experiences
 

593
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,990
and it was the most intense experiences
of my life. It's completely surreal,

594
00:10:39,990 --> 00:10:40,000
of my life. It's completely surreal,
 

595
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:41,990
of my life. It's completely surreal,
totally bizarre. And you do I mean, you

596
00:10:41,990 --> 00:10:42,000
totally bizarre. And you do I mean, you
 

597
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:43,269
totally bizarre. And you do I mean, you
have that moment. You're like, "This is

598
00:10:43,269 --> 00:10:43,279
have that moment. You're like, "This is
 

599
00:10:43,279 --> 00:10:45,430
have that moment. You're like, "This is
the birth moment. This is a new baby.

600
00:10:45,430 --> 00:10:45,440
the birth moment. This is a new baby.
 

601
00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,190
the birth moment. This is a new baby.
This is my baby." And that's very

602
00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:47,200
This is my baby." And that's very
 

603
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,710
This is my baby." And that's very
powerful, but I will admit it there.

604
00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:50,720
powerful, but I will admit it there.
 

605
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,590
powerful, but I will admit it there.
It's that process of of bonding where

606
00:10:53,590 --> 00:10:53,600
It's that process of of bonding where
 

607
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,269
It's that process of of bonding where
you interact with the child. And now,

608
00:10:55,269 --> 00:10:55,279
you interact with the child. And now,
 

609
00:10:55,279 --> 00:10:57,190
you interact with the child. And now,
you know, my kids are six and three, and

610
00:10:57,190 --> 00:10:57,200
you know, my kids are six and three, and
 

611
00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:58,630
you know, my kids are six and three, and
it's just completely different. We can

612
00:10:58,630 --> 00:10:58,640
it's just completely different. We can
 

613
00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:00,310
it's just completely different. We can
talk to each other. we can do, you know,

614
00:11:00,310 --> 00:11:00,320
talk to each other. we can do, you know,
 

615
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,829
talk to each other. we can do, you know,
like it's just it's it's much more rich,

616
00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:03,839
like it's just it's it's much more rich,
 

617
00:11:03,839 --> 00:11:06,150
like it's just it's it's much more rich,
you know, I I I obviously women go

618
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:06,160
you know, I I I obviously women go
 

619
00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,150
you know, I I I obviously women go
through so much and and nursing and like

620
00:11:08,150 --> 00:11:08,160
through so much and and nursing and like
 

621
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,630
through so much and and nursing and like
that initial phase is so incredibly

622
00:11:10,630 --> 00:11:10,640
that initial phase is so incredibly
 

623
00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:12,470
that initial phase is so incredibly
bonding and so we don't have that. We

624
00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:12,480
bonding and so we don't have that. We
 

625
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,949
bonding and so we don't have that. We
have this other experience uh about it.

626
00:11:14,949 --> 00:11:14,959
have this other experience uh about it.
 

627
00:11:14,959 --> 00:11:16,790
have this other experience uh about it.
What what do you find with child birth?

628
00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:16,800
What what do you find with child birth?
 

629
00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,790
What what do you find with child birth?
Like do you think uh like in terms of of

630
00:11:20,790 --> 00:11:20,800
Like do you think uh like in terms of of
 

631
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,829
Like do you think uh like in terms of of
uh of men witnessing the child birth? Is

632
00:11:23,829 --> 00:11:23,839
uh of men witnessing the child birth? Is
 

633
00:11:23,839 --> 00:11:25,670
uh of men witnessing the child birth? Is
are there pros and cons to that or I

634
00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:25,680
are there pros and cons to that or I
 

635
00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:27,910
are there pros and cons to that or I
mean most men I think at this at this

636
00:11:27,910 --> 00:11:27,920
mean most men I think at this at this
 

637
00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,389
mean most men I think at this at this
phase do watch. It's not like the 1950s

638
00:11:30,389 --> 00:11:30,399
phase do watch. It's not like the 1950s
 

639
00:11:30,399 --> 00:11:32,230
phase do watch. It's not like the 1950s
where they're pacing with a cigarette in

640
00:11:32,230 --> 00:11:32,240
where they're pacing with a cigarette in
 

641
00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,389
where they're pacing with a cigarette in
the in the hospital lobby and then they

642
00:11:34,389 --> 00:11:34,399
the in the hospital lobby and then they
 

643
00:11:34,399 --> 00:11:36,069
the in the hospital lobby and then they
come out. What what's what's your take

644
00:11:36,069 --> 00:11:36,079
come out. What what's what's your take
 

645
00:11:36,079 --> 00:11:36,790
come out. What what's what's your take
on that?

646
00:11:36,790 --> 00:11:36,800
on that?
 

647
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,470
on that?
>> Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know if

648
00:11:38,470 --> 00:11:38,480
>> Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know if
 

649
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,790
>> Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know if
you uh saw this controversy, but Scott

650
00:11:40,790 --> 00:11:40,800
you uh saw this controversy, but Scott
 

651
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,030
you uh saw this controversy, but Scott
Galloway on his podcast recently said,

652
00:11:43,030 --> 00:11:43,040
Galloway on his podcast recently said,
 

653
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:44,710
Galloway on his podcast recently said,
"I don't think men should even be in the

654
00:11:44,710 --> 00:11:44,720
"I don't think men should even be in the
 

655
00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:45,990
"I don't think men should even be in the
delivering room because it's just

656
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:46,000
delivering room because it's just
 

657
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:47,190
delivering room because it's just
disgusting."

658
00:11:47,190 --> 00:11:47,200
disgusting."
 

659
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:48,630
disgusting."
>> Um, and of course, there was a lot of

660
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:48,640
>> Um, and of course, there was a lot of
 

661
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:49,910
>> Um, and of course, there was a lot of
push back on that.

662
00:11:49,910 --> 00:11:49,920
push back on that.
 

663
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,269
push back on that.
>> Um, but you know what's interesting is

664
00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:53,279
>> Um, but you know what's interesting is
 

665
00:11:53,279 --> 00:11:55,350
>> Um, but you know what's interesting is
birth is very social, right? So

666
00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:55,360
birth is very social, right? So
 

667
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,509
birth is very social, right? So
throughout human history, one of the

668
00:11:57,509 --> 00:11:57,519
throughout human history, one of the
 

669
00:11:57,519 --> 00:11:59,350
throughout human history, one of the
things that's unique about humans is we

670
00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:59,360
things that's unique about humans is we
 

671
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,030
things that's unique about humans is we
actually require assistance to deliver

672
00:12:01,030 --> 00:12:01,040
actually require assistance to deliver
 

673
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:02,710
actually require assistance to deliver
an infant. Yeah. You know, and that's

674
00:12:02,710 --> 00:12:02,720
an infant. Yeah. You know, and that's
 

675
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,790
an infant. Yeah. You know, and that's
partially because when we decided to I

676
00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:04,800
partially because when we decided to I
 

677
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,389
partially because when we decided to I
mean decided when we evolved to walk

678
00:12:06,389 --> 00:12:06,399
mean decided when we evolved to walk
 

679
00:12:06,399 --> 00:12:09,110
mean decided when we evolved to walk
upright, we had to kind of make that

680
00:12:09,110 --> 00:12:09,120
upright, we had to kind of make that
 

681
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,350
upright, we had to kind of make that
trade-off between like our pelvis width

682
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:11,360
trade-off between like our pelvis width
 

683
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,269
trade-off between like our pelvis width
and you know, the size of a baby's head.

684
00:12:13,269 --> 00:12:13,279
and you know, the size of a baby's head.
 

685
00:12:13,279 --> 00:12:14,310
and you know, the size of a baby's head.
>> Head size. Yeah,

686
00:12:14,310 --> 00:12:14,320
>> Head size. Yeah,
 

687
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,110
>> Head size. Yeah,
>> exactly. Like the obst I'm going to

688
00:12:17,110 --> 00:12:17,120
>> exactly. Like the obst I'm going to
 

689
00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,829
>> exactly. Like the obst I'm going to
mispronounce this. Obstetrical

690
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:19,839
mispronounce this. Obstetrical
 

691
00:12:19,839 --> 00:12:22,069
mispronounce this. Obstetrical
the obstetrical dilemma. It's called the

692
00:12:22,069 --> 00:12:22,079
the obstetrical dilemma. It's called the
 

693
00:12:22,079 --> 00:12:24,230
the obstetrical dilemma. It's called the
obstetrical dilemma.

694
00:12:24,230 --> 00:12:24,240
obstetrical dilemma.
 

695
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:25,350
obstetrical dilemma.
>> Um

696
00:12:25,350 --> 00:12:25,360
>> Um
 

697
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,230
>> Um
>> but birth has almost always been a

698
00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:28,240
>> but birth has almost always been a
 

699
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:32,710
>> but birth has almost always been a
female only affair. So historically

700
00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:32,720
female only affair. So historically
 

701
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,470
female only affair. So historically
women would be assisted by their

702
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:34,480
women would be assisted by their
 

703
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,110
women would be assisted by their
sisters, their mothers, a midwife and it

704
00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:37,120
sisters, their mothers, a midwife and it
 

705
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,030
sisters, their mothers, a midwife and it
was only when birth moved into hospitals

706
00:12:39,030 --> 00:12:39,040
was only when birth moved into hospitals
 

707
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:40,550
was only when birth moved into hospitals
which was really like in the 19th

708
00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:40,560
which was really like in the 19th
 

709
00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:42,389
which was really like in the 19th
century it became medicalized and all of

710
00:12:42,389 --> 00:12:42,399
century it became medicalized and all of
 

711
00:12:42,399 --> 00:12:43,829
century it became medicalized and all of
a sudden you had like the male doctor

712
00:12:43,829 --> 00:12:43,839
a sudden you had like the male doctor
 

713
00:12:43,839 --> 00:12:45,430
a sudden you had like the male doctor
presiding over birth

714
00:12:45,430 --> 00:12:45,440
presiding over birth
 

715
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,350
presiding over birth
>> and women at that time were given super

716
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:47,360
>> and women at that time were given super
 

717
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,670
>> and women at that time were given super
heavy anesthesia. It was called twilight

718
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:49,680
heavy anesthesia. It was called twilight
 

719
00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:51,750
heavy anesthesia. It was called twilight
sleep which basically knocked you out,

720
00:12:51,750 --> 00:12:51,760
sleep which basically knocked you out,
 

721
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:53,509
sleep which basically knocked you out,
made you unconscious and women couldn't

722
00:12:53,509 --> 00:12:53,519
made you unconscious and women couldn't
 

723
00:12:53,519 --> 00:12:54,790
made you unconscious and women couldn't
even remember their own birth

724
00:12:54,790 --> 00:12:54,800
even remember their own birth
 

725
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,590
even remember their own birth
experiences. So, um, it was actually

726
00:12:57,590 --> 00:12:57,600
experiences. So, um, it was actually
 

727
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,110
experiences. So, um, it was actually
like in the 40s and 50s that some moms

728
00:13:01,110 --> 00:13:01,120
like in the 40s and 50s that some moms
 

729
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,190
like in the 40s and 50s that some moms
actually started asking to have their

730
00:13:03,190 --> 00:13:03,200
actually started asking to have their
 

731
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,590
actually started asking to have their
partners present at birth because they

732
00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:05,600
partners present at birth because they
 

733
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,670
partners present at birth because they
wanted to reduce the anesthesia and they

734
00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:07,680
wanted to reduce the anesthesia and they
 

735
00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:10,069
wanted to reduce the anesthesia and they
wanted to be conscious of the birth. And

736
00:13:10,069 --> 00:13:10,079
wanted to be conscious of the birth. And
 

737
00:13:10,079 --> 00:13:11,430
wanted to be conscious of the birth. And
you've probably heard of the Bradley

738
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:11,440
you've probably heard of the Bradley
 

739
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,750
you've probably heard of the Bradley
method. Um, Bradley was a pediatrician

740
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:13,760
method. Um, Bradley was a pediatrician
 

741
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,230
method. Um, Bradley was a pediatrician
who actually advocated for husbands to

742
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:16,240
who actually advocated for husbands to
 

743
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,230
who actually advocated for husbands to
attend child birth. So, there's been

744
00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:18,240
attend child birth. So, there's been
 

745
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:19,750
attend child birth. So, there's been
this huge sea change, but it really

746
00:13:19,750 --> 00:13:19,760
this huge sea change, but it really
 

747
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,069
this huge sea change, but it really
wasn't even until the 70s or 80s that

748
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:22,079
wasn't even until the 70s or 80s that
 

749
00:13:22,079 --> 00:13:25,110
wasn't even until the 70s or 80s that
dads started to be welcome at birth. And

750
00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:25,120
dads started to be welcome at birth. And
 

751
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:26,710
dads started to be welcome at birth. And
in some cultures, in some countries,

752
00:13:26,710 --> 00:13:26,720
in some cultures, in some countries,
 

753
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,230
in some cultures, in some countries,
like in Japan, it's actually not

754
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:28,240
like in Japan, it's actually not
 

755
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,470
like in Japan, it's actually not
completely typical for men to be a child

756
00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:30,480
completely typical for men to be a child
 

757
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:31,190
completely typical for men to be a child
birth.

758
00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:31,200
birth.
 

759
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,190
birth.
>> So, it's been this very recent

760
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:33,200
>> So, it's been this very recent
 

761
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,829
>> So, it's been this very recent
adaptation like in our human history.

762
00:13:35,829 --> 00:13:35,839
adaptation like in our human history.
 

763
00:13:35,839 --> 00:13:37,829
adaptation like in our human history.
Yet, we think of it as like it's almost

764
00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:37,839
Yet, we think of it as like it's almost
 

765
00:13:37,839 --> 00:13:39,750
Yet, we think of it as like it's almost
weird if men aren't at their baby's

766
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:39,760
weird if men aren't at their baby's
 

767
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:40,150
weird if men aren't at their baby's
birth.

768
00:13:40,150 --> 00:13:40,160
birth.
 

769
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:41,430
birth.
>> At least in America. I don't know. I

770
00:13:41,430 --> 00:13:41,440
>> At least in America. I don't know. I
 

771
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,190
>> At least in America. I don't know. I
feel like, yeah, we would probably shame

772
00:13:43,190 --> 00:13:43,200
feel like, yeah, we would probably shame
 

773
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:44,710
feel like, yeah, we would probably shame
one another like, "What are you doing?

774
00:13:44,710 --> 00:13:44,720
one another like, "What are you doing?
 

775
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:46,949
one another like, "What are you doing?
You're not there." You know,

776
00:13:46,949 --> 00:13:46,959
You're not there." You know,
 

777
00:13:46,959 --> 00:13:49,110
You're not there." You know,
>> I don't feel like I was terribly

778
00:13:49,110 --> 00:13:49,120
>> I don't feel like I was terribly
 

779
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,750
>> I don't feel like I was terribly
necessary in any in any regard other

780
00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:51,760
necessary in any in any regard other
 

781
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:53,190
necessary in any in any regard other
than a support. I'm just holding your

782
00:13:53,190 --> 00:13:53,200
than a support. I'm just holding your
 

783
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,030
than a support. I'm just holding your
hand and like you can do it. And

784
00:13:55,030 --> 00:13:55,040
hand and like you can do it. And
 

785
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:56,550
hand and like you can do it. And
>> uh I hope I did a good job. I don't

786
00:13:56,550 --> 00:13:56,560
>> uh I hope I did a good job. I don't
 

787
00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:58,710
>> uh I hope I did a good job. I don't
know. I mean, uh I mean I I wouldn't

788
00:13:58,710 --> 00:13:58,720
know. I mean, uh I mean I I wouldn't
 

789
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,470
know. I mean, uh I mean I I wouldn't
trade it. I I'm glad I was there. I

790
00:14:00,470 --> 00:14:00,480
trade it. I I'm glad I was there. I
 

791
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,030
trade it. I I'm glad I was there. I
mean, it's wild. It's wild to watch a

792
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:03,040
mean, it's wild. It's wild to watch a
 

793
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:04,629
mean, it's wild. It's wild to watch a
person come out of a person. It's

794
00:14:04,629 --> 00:14:04,639
person come out of a person. It's
 

795
00:14:04,639 --> 00:14:05,670
person come out of a person. It's
insane.

796
00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:05,680
insane.
 

797
00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:07,110
insane.
>> But um but yeah,

798
00:14:07,110 --> 00:14:07,120
>> But um but yeah,
 

799
00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:08,949
>> But um but yeah,
>> super freaky. Yeah. And like you said,

800
00:14:08,949 --> 00:14:08,959
>> super freaky. Yeah. And like you said,
 

801
00:14:08,959 --> 00:14:10,550
>> super freaky. Yeah. And like you said,
like there can be pros and cons. Like

802
00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:10,560
like there can be pros and cons. Like
 

803
00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:12,470
like there can be pros and cons. Like
it's wonderful for a lot of men and and

804
00:14:12,470 --> 00:14:12,480
it's wonderful for a lot of men and and
 

805
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,829
it's wonderful for a lot of men and and
it is like such a miracle and it's and I

806
00:14:15,829 --> 00:14:15,839
it is like such a miracle and it's and I
 

807
00:14:15,839 --> 00:14:17,910
it is like such a miracle and it's and I
I I mean I know I was so happy my

808
00:14:17,910 --> 00:14:17,920
I I mean I know I was so happy my
 

809
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:19,509
I I mean I know I was so happy my
husband was there because I was freaking

810
00:14:19,509 --> 00:14:19,519
husband was there because I was freaking
 

811
00:14:19,519 --> 00:14:21,189
husband was there because I was freaking
out, right? It's like this terrifying

812
00:14:21,189 --> 00:14:21,199
out, right? It's like this terrifying
 

813
00:14:21,199 --> 00:14:24,310
out, right? It's like this terrifying
and and like unpredictable experience.

814
00:14:24,310 --> 00:14:24,320
and and like unpredictable experience.
 

815
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,870
and and like unpredictable experience.
Um but it's also it can be traumatic for

816
00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:26,880
Um but it's also it can be traumatic for
 

817
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,310
Um but it's also it can be traumatic for
men. So sometimes things go wrong or

818
00:14:30,310 --> 00:14:30,320
men. So sometimes things go wrong or
 

819
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,230
men. So sometimes things go wrong or
you're really scared and there's nothing

820
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:32,240
you're really scared and there's nothing
 

821
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:36,230
you're really scared and there's nothing
you can do. And so some men do show

822
00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:36,240
you can do. And so some men do show
 

823
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,389
you can do. And so some men do show
difficulty adjusting to parenthood

824
00:14:38,389 --> 00:14:38,399
difficulty adjusting to parenthood
 

825
00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:42,069
difficulty adjusting to parenthood
because the birth was so upsetting. So I

826
00:14:42,069 --> 00:14:42,079
because the birth was so upsetting. So I
 

827
00:14:42,079 --> 00:14:43,750
because the birth was so upsetting. So I
think it's one of those things where we

828
00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:43,760
think it's one of those things where we
 

829
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,670
think it's one of those things where we
don't think about the fact that fathers

830
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:45,680
don't think about the fact that fathers
 

831
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,550
don't think about the fact that fathers
haven't always been birth attendants.

832
00:14:48,550 --> 00:14:48,560
haven't always been birth attendants.
 

833
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,470
haven't always been birth attendants.
It's this new role for them. And like

834
00:14:50,470 --> 00:14:50,480
It's this new role for them. And like
 

835
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,550
It's this new role for them. And like
with a lot of aspects of fatherhood,

836
00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:52,560
with a lot of aspects of fatherhood,
 

837
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:54,230
with a lot of aspects of fatherhood,
we're still figuring this out as a

838
00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:54,240
we're still figuring this out as a
 

839
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:55,910
we're still figuring this out as a
species. Like this may not come

840
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:55,920
species. Like this may not come
 

841
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:57,269
species. Like this may not come
naturally.

842
00:14:57,269 --> 00:14:57,279
naturally.
 

843
00:14:57,279 --> 00:14:59,269
naturally.
>> Interesting. Yeah. Our f for our first

844
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:59,279
>> Interesting. Yeah. Our f for our first
 

845
00:14:59,279 --> 00:15:02,069
>> Interesting. Yeah. Our f for our first
kid, it was a very sketchy uh thing that

846
00:15:02,069 --> 00:15:02,079
kid, it was a very sketchy uh thing that
 

847
00:15:02,079 --> 00:15:03,750
kid, it was a very sketchy uh thing that
happened. I won't go into details. I

848
00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:03,760
happened. I won't go into details. I
 

849
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:05,030
happened. I won't go into details. I
don't, you know, maybe in another

850
00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:05,040
don't, you know, maybe in another
 

851
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:06,550
don't, you know, maybe in another
podcast people want to know the deal,

852
00:15:06,550 --> 00:15:06,560
podcast people want to know the deal,
 

853
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,389
podcast people want to know the deal,
but it was that kind of thing. Like for

854
00:15:08,389 --> 00:15:08,399
but it was that kind of thing. Like for
 

855
00:15:08,399 --> 00:15:09,910
but it was that kind of thing. Like for
for like a 30 secondond span, I was

856
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:09,920
for like a 30 secondond span, I was
 

857
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:11,670
for like a 30 secondond span, I was
like, is my wife going to die? What is

858
00:15:11,670 --> 00:15:11,680
like, is my wife going to die? What is
 

859
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,069
like, is my wife going to die? What is
happening? You know, um, but I wouldn't

860
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:14,079
happening? You know, um, but I wouldn't
 

861
00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:16,949
happening? You know, um, but I wouldn't
say I I think that that ended once the

862
00:15:16,949 --> 00:15:16,959
say I I think that that ended once the
 

863
00:15:16,959 --> 00:15:18,150
say I I think that that ended once the
delivery was successful. It was just

864
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:18,160
delivery was successful. It was just
 

865
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,710
delivery was successful. It was just
like, you know, a wave of relief and

866
00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:20,720
like, you know, a wave of relief and
 

867
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,189
like, you know, a wave of relief and
then just, okay, let's get to work. Um,

868
00:15:23,189 --> 00:15:23,199
then just, okay, let's get to work. Um,
 

869
00:15:23,199 --> 00:15:24,550
then just, okay, let's get to work. Um,
but yeah, I don't know.

870
00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:24,560
but yeah, I don't know.
 

871
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,150
but yeah, I don't know.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I wrote about this in the

872
00:15:26,150 --> 00:15:26,160
>> Yeah. Yeah. I wrote about this in the
 

873
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,069
>> Yeah. Yeah. I wrote about this in the
book, but when I was born, my dad

874
00:15:28,069 --> 00:15:28,079
book, but when I was born, my dad
 

875
00:15:28,079 --> 00:15:29,829
book, but when I was born, my dad
actually had to scrub in to perform

876
00:15:29,829 --> 00:15:29,839
actually had to scrub in to perform
 

877
00:15:29,839 --> 00:15:31,189
actually had to scrub in to perform
emergency surgery.

878
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:31,199
emergency surgery.
 

879
00:15:31,199 --> 00:15:33,350
emergency surgery.
>> Wow. So, my dad's a surgeon, but

880
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:33,360
>> Wow. So, my dad's a surgeon, but
 

881
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,350
>> Wow. So, my dad's a surgeon, but
obviously he didn't want to be, you

882
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:35,360
obviously he didn't want to be, you
 

883
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,990
obviously he didn't want to be, you
know, working at the birth. But my mom's

884
00:15:37,990 --> 00:15:38,000
know, working at the birth. But my mom's
 

885
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,430
know, working at the birth. But my mom's
um uterus turned inside out. Like the

886
00:15:41,430 --> 00:15:41,440
um uterus turned inside out. Like the
 

887
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,990
um uterus turned inside out. Like the
the doctor pulled a little too hard when

888
00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:44,000
the doctor pulled a little too hard when
 

889
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,629
the doctor pulled a little too hard when
delivering the placenta. And all of a

890
00:15:46,629 --> 00:15:46,639
delivering the placenta. And all of a
 

891
00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:48,870
delivering the placenta. And all of a
sudden, my mom loses all this blood and

892
00:15:48,870 --> 00:15:48,880
sudden, my mom loses all this blood and
 

893
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,030
sudden, my mom loses all this blood and
like they have to put her back together.

894
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:51,040
like they have to put her back together.
 

895
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,990
like they have to put her back together.
And my dad had to like go to work.

896
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:54,000
And my dad had to like go to work.
 

897
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,069
And my dad had to like go to work.
>> And I was thinking about it like I was

898
00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:56,079
>> And I was thinking about it like I was
 

899
00:15:56,079 --> 00:15:57,990
>> And I was thinking about it like I was
probably just like this little newborn

900
00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:58,000
probably just like this little newborn
 

901
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,790
probably just like this little newborn
like, "Hey, everyone forgot about me."

902
00:16:00,790 --> 00:16:00,800
like, "Hey, everyone forgot about me."
 

903
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,069
like, "Hey, everyone forgot about me."
Um, and thankfully my mom was fine. She

904
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:04,079
Um, and thankfully my mom was fine. She
 

905
00:16:04,079 --> 00:16:06,790
Um, and thankfully my mom was fine. She
recovered. She had two more kids. But

906
00:16:06,790 --> 00:16:06,800
recovered. She had two more kids. But
 

907
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,550
recovered. She had two more kids. But
think about that experience for a new

908
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:08,560
think about that experience for a new
 

909
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,389
think about that experience for a new
dad. Like you've just watched your baby

910
00:16:10,389 --> 00:16:10,399
dad. Like you've just watched your baby
 

911
00:16:10,399 --> 00:16:11,990
dad. Like you've just watched your baby
be born and then all of a sudden you're

912
00:16:11,990 --> 00:16:12,000
be born and then all of a sudden you're
 

913
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,749
be born and then all of a sudden you're
in a gown like

914
00:16:13,749 --> 00:16:13,759
in a gown like
 

915
00:16:13,759 --> 00:16:15,749
in a gown like
>> literally holding the scalpel.

916
00:16:15,749 --> 00:16:15,759
>> literally holding the scalpel.
 

917
00:16:15,759 --> 00:16:17,350
>> literally holding the scalpel.
>> Yeah. And your wife just went through

918
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:17,360
>> Yeah. And your wife just went through
 

919
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,949
>> Yeah. And your wife just went through
this crazy thing and that's wild.

920
00:16:20,949 --> 00:16:20,959
this crazy thing and that's wild.
 

921
00:16:20,959 --> 00:16:21,350
this crazy thing and that's wild.
>> Yeah.

922
00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:21,360
>> Yeah.
 

923
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,269
>> Yeah.
>> Um, you So you mentioned your husband.

924
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:23,279
>> Um, you So you mentioned your husband.
 

925
00:16:23,279 --> 00:16:26,069
>> Um, you So you mentioned your husband.
So So uh, for my viewers, Dan and I are

926
00:16:26,069 --> 00:16:26,079
So So uh, for my viewers, Dan and I are
 

927
00:16:26,079 --> 00:16:27,430
So So uh, for my viewers, Dan and I are
are friends. We know each other through

928
00:16:27,430 --> 00:16:27,440
are friends. We know each other through
 

929
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,150
are friends. We know each other through
music. Uh, and so I I I I have a bit of

930
00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:30,160
music. Uh, and so I I I I have a bit of
 

931
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,069
music. Uh, and so I I I I have a bit of
a selfish aside here. I want to know

932
00:16:32,069 --> 00:16:32,079
a selfish aside here. I want to know
 

933
00:16:32,079 --> 00:16:34,470
a selfish aside here. I want to know
about dadbod. Dan and I are two fellows

934
00:16:34,470 --> 00:16:34,480
about dadbod. Dan and I are two fellows
 

935
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,389
about dadbod. Dan and I are two fellows
that I would characterize as having mild

936
00:16:36,389 --> 00:16:36,399
that I would characterize as having mild
 

937
00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:40,389
that I would characterize as having mild
dadbod. So I want to know right what

938
00:16:40,389 --> 00:16:40,399
dadbod. So I want to know right what
 

939
00:16:40,399 --> 00:16:42,550
dadbod. So I want to know right what
what is that? What there there's there's

940
00:16:42,550 --> 00:16:42,560
what is that? What there there's there's
 

941
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,470
what is that? What there there's there's
a there's a physiological impetus for

942
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:44,480
a there's a physiological impetus for
 

943
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,310
a there's a physiological impetus for
this I hear. Right. What tell let's talk

944
00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:46,320
this I hear. Right. What tell let's talk
 

945
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:47,430
this I hear. Right. What tell let's talk
about dadbod.

946
00:16:47,430 --> 00:16:47,440
about dadbod.
 

947
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,590
about dadbod.
>> Yeah. So we think of dadbot as like this

948
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:49,600
>> Yeah. So we think of dadbot as like this
 

949
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,230
>> Yeah. So we think of dadbot as like this
comic insult but it actually is a real

950
00:16:52,230 --> 00:16:52,240
comic insult but it actually is a real
 

951
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,749
comic insult but it actually is a real
phenomenon. So in uh mammals that uh

952
00:16:55,749 --> 00:16:55,759
phenomenon. So in uh mammals that uh
 

953
00:16:55,759 --> 00:16:57,670
phenomenon. So in uh mammals that uh
that are biparental where males are

954
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:57,680
that are biparental where males are
 

955
00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,670
that are biparental where males are
involved in care, you actually do see

956
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:59,680
involved in care, you actually do see
 

957
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,670
involved in care, you actually do see
weight increases across the transition

958
00:17:01,670 --> 00:17:01,680
weight increases across the transition
 

959
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,590
weight increases across the transition
to fatherhood. So in tamarind monkeys um

960
00:17:05,590 --> 00:17:05,600
to fatherhood. So in tamarind monkeys um
 

961
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:07,590
to fatherhood. So in tamarind monkeys um
those that are expecting and and are

962
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:07,600
those that are expecting and and are
 

963
00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,309
those that are expecting and and are
having new um babies actually do gain

964
00:17:10,309 --> 00:17:10,319
having new um babies actually do gain
 

965
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:12,789
having new um babies actually do gain
like 10% of their body weight. And it

966
00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:12,799
like 10% of their body weight. And it
 

967
00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:15,189
like 10% of their body weight. And it
may be adaptive because you want to

968
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:15,199
may be adaptive because you want to
 

969
00:17:15,199 --> 00:17:16,789
may be adaptive because you want to
increase your body size to be more

970
00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:16,799
increase your body size to be more
 

971
00:17:16,799 --> 00:17:20,069
increase your body size to be more
imposing and be a better guard of the

972
00:17:20,069 --> 00:17:20,079
imposing and be a better guard of the
 

973
00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:20,870
imposing and be a better guard of the
new baby.

974
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:20,880
new baby.
 

975
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,990
new baby.
>> Interesting. Um, you also want to like

976
00:17:23,990 --> 00:17:24,000
>> Interesting. Um, you also want to like
 

977
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,750
>> Interesting. Um, you also want to like
like store fat because you will need to

978
00:17:27,750 --> 00:17:27,760
like store fat because you will need to
 

979
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:29,669
like store fat because you will need to
provision your infant, right? Right.

980
00:17:29,669 --> 00:17:29,679
provision your infant, right? Right.
 

981
00:17:29,679 --> 00:17:31,669
provision your infant, right? Right.
>> Um, so it makes evolutionary sense that

982
00:17:31,669 --> 00:17:31,679
>> Um, so it makes evolutionary sense that
 

983
00:17:31,679 --> 00:17:33,909
>> Um, so it makes evolutionary sense that
that dads would get bigger um when a

984
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:33,919
that dads would get bigger um when a
 

985
00:17:33,919 --> 00:17:37,190
that dads would get bigger um when a
baby is about to come. But in most human

986
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:37,200
baby is about to come. But in most human
 

987
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,830
baby is about to come. But in most human
context, like 95% of our history, we

988
00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:39,840
context, like 95% of our history, we
 

989
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,470
context, like 95% of our history, we
were hunter gatherers. So um, you were

990
00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:42,480
were hunter gatherers. So um, you were
 

991
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,270
were hunter gatherers. So um, you were
going from like extremely lean to

992
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:45,280
going from like extremely lean to
 

993
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,070
going from like extremely lean to
perhaps slightly less lean. um in our

994
00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:48,080
perhaps slightly less lean. um in our
 

995
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,950
perhaps slightly less lean. um in our
modern kind of obesogenic society like

996
00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:50,960
modern kind of obesogenic society like
 

997
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,549
modern kind of obesogenic society like
men actually can start to be worried

998
00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:52,559
men actually can start to be worried
 

999
00:17:52,559 --> 00:17:53,830
men actually can start to be worried
about their weight

1000
00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:53,840
about their weight
 

1001
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,070
about their weight
>> and um dadbot is probably driven by a

1002
00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:56,080
>> and um dadbot is probably driven by a
 

1003
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:57,590
>> and um dadbot is probably driven by a
bunch of different mechanisms but they

1004
00:17:57,590 --> 00:17:57,600
bunch of different mechanisms but they
 

1005
00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,029
bunch of different mechanisms but they
include hormonal changes like

1006
00:17:59,029 --> 00:17:59,039
include hormonal changes like
 

1007
00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:01,350
include hormonal changes like
testosterone levels drop right

1008
00:18:01,350 --> 00:18:01,360
testosterone levels drop right
 

1009
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:04,870
testosterone levels drop right
>> um lifestyle changes sleep is disrupted

1010
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:04,880
>> um lifestyle changes sleep is disrupted
 

1011
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,150
>> um lifestyle changes sleep is disrupted
um exercise and eating changes it's this

1012
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:08,160
um exercise and eating changes it's this
 

1013
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,310
um exercise and eating changes it's this
multi-determined phenomenon but it is

1014
00:18:10,310 --> 00:18:10,320
multi-determined phenomenon but it is
 

1015
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,630
multi-determined phenomenon but it is
this real phenomenon that's been

1016
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:12,640
this real phenomenon that's been
 

1017
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,190
this real phenomenon that's been
observed both in humans and in primates

1018
00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:15,200
observed both in humans and in primates
 

1019
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:16,789
observed both in humans and in primates
>> yeah I definitely feel like my

1020
00:18:16,789 --> 00:18:16,799
>> yeah I definitely feel like my
 

1021
00:18:16,799 --> 00:18:18,870
>> yeah I definitely feel like my
metabolism has changed and I and I can't

1022
00:18:18,870 --> 00:18:18,880
metabolism has changed and I and I can't
 

1023
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,190
metabolism has changed and I and I can't
tell if it's due to fatherhood or just

1024
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:21,200
tell if it's due to fatherhood or just
 

1025
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,990
tell if it's due to fatherhood or just
getting older in general. Um maybe a

1026
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:24,000
getting older in general. Um maybe a
 

1027
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:25,430
getting older in general. Um maybe a
combination but uh

1028
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:25,440
combination but uh
 

1029
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,510
combination but uh
>> yeah well there was an epidemiological

1030
00:18:27,510 --> 00:18:27,520
>> yeah well there was an epidemiological
 

1031
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,430
>> yeah well there was an epidemiological
study that longitudinally looked over

1032
00:18:29,430 --> 00:18:29,440
study that longitudinally looked over
 

1033
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:31,909
study that longitudinally looked over
several decades u men who were recruited

1034
00:18:31,909 --> 00:18:31,919
several decades u men who were recruited
 

1035
00:18:31,919 --> 00:18:34,070
several decades u men who were recruited
before they became fathers and those who

1036
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:34,080
before they became fathers and those who
 

1037
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,070
before they became fathers and those who
became dads actually did have an an

1038
00:18:36,070 --> 00:18:36,080
became dads actually did have an an
 

1039
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,390
became dads actually did have an an
inflection point like an uptick in

1040
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:38,400
inflection point like an uptick in
 

1041
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,510
inflection point like an uptick in
weight gain not shown by men who did not

1042
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:41,520
weight gain not shown by men who did not
 

1043
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,230
weight gain not shown by men who did not
become children. So there is probably a

1044
00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:44,240
become children. So there is probably a
 

1045
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:45,909
become children. So there is probably a
role for fatherhood. Yeah.

1046
00:18:45,909 --> 00:18:45,919
role for fatherhood. Yeah.
 

1047
00:18:45,919 --> 00:18:47,990
role for fatherhood. Yeah.
>> The good news is that actually women

1048
00:18:47,990 --> 00:18:48,000
>> The good news is that actually women
 

1049
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,950
>> The good news is that actually women
prefer dad bots. So there have been

1050
00:18:50,950 --> 00:18:50,960
prefer dad bots. So there have been
 

1051
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,230
prefer dad bots. So there have been
several studies of single women shown a

1052
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:54,240
several studies of single women shown a
 

1053
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,710
several studies of single women shown a
variety of body types and they are more

1054
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:56,720
variety of body types and they are more
 

1055
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,870
variety of body types and they are more
likely to endorse like you said the mild

1056
00:18:58,870 --> 00:18:58,880
likely to endorse like you said the mild
 

1057
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,990
likely to endorse like you said the mild
dadbod um as being more attractive maybe

1058
00:19:01,990 --> 00:19:02,000
dadbod um as being more attractive maybe
 

1059
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,470
dadbod um as being more attractive maybe
because it's signaling a man's

1060
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:04,480
because it's signaling a man's
 

1061
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,270
because it's signaling a man's
willingness to invest in his new family

1062
00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:07,280
willingness to invest in his new family
 

1063
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,270
willingness to invest in his new family
which is attractive to women

1064
00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:09,280
which is attractive to women
 

1065
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:10,870
which is attractive to women
>> provided that we are actually dads and

1066
00:19:10,870 --> 00:19:10,880
>> provided that we are actually dads and
 

1067
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:12,789
>> provided that we are actually dads and
not just randomly gaining weight. What

1068
00:19:12,789 --> 00:19:12,799
not just randomly gaining weight. What
 

1069
00:19:12,799 --> 00:19:14,710
not just randomly gaining weight. What
what about dad's strength? Because I

1070
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:14,720
what about dad's strength? Because I
 

1071
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,549
what about dad's strength? Because I
also feel is that a thing? Because I

1072
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:16,559
also feel is that a thing? Because I
 

1073
00:19:16,559 --> 00:19:19,029
also feel is that a thing? Because I
feel like I'm stronger. I can just like

1074
00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:19,039
feel like I'm stronger. I can just like
 

1075
00:19:19,039 --> 00:19:21,029
feel like I'm stronger. I can just like
lift more. And I don't know if it's

1076
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:21,039
lift more. And I don't know if it's
 

1077
00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:22,789
lift more. And I don't know if it's
because I'm like carrying my children

1078
00:19:22,789 --> 00:19:22,799
because I'm like carrying my children
 

1079
00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:24,390
because I'm like carrying my children
everywhere all the time or so, but

1080
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:24,400
everywhere all the time or so, but
 

1081
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:25,750
everywhere all the time or so, but
sometimes I'm at the gym and I'm like

1082
00:19:25,750 --> 00:19:25,760
sometimes I'm at the gym and I'm like
 

1083
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,549
sometimes I'm at the gym and I'm like
I'm strong. I'm I'm I'm in not quite as

1084
00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:28,559
I'm strong. I'm I'm I'm in not quite as
 

1085
00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:30,549
I'm strong. I'm I'm I'm in not quite as
good a shape as I was before. I'm older

1086
00:19:30,549 --> 00:19:30,559
good a shape as I was before. I'm older
 

1087
00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:33,110
good a shape as I was before. I'm older
and achier yet I can lift a bit more and

1088
00:19:33,110 --> 00:19:33,120
and achier yet I can lift a bit more and
 

1089
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:34,390
and achier yet I can lift a bit more and
I'm not really sure why. Is that

1090
00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:34,400
I'm not really sure why. Is that
 

1091
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:35,270
I'm not really sure why. Is that
something?

1092
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:35,280
something?
 

1093
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,669
something?
>> Yeah. I sorry to disappoint you. I don't

1094
00:19:37,669 --> 00:19:37,679
>> Yeah. I sorry to disappoint you. I don't
 

1095
00:19:37,679 --> 00:19:40,710
>> Yeah. I sorry to disappoint you. I don't
think that's a thing. But well, although

1096
00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:40,720
think that's a thing. But well, although
 

1097
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,630
think that's a thing. But well, although
you know it's true like you're basically

1098
00:19:42,630 --> 00:19:42,640
you know it's true like you're basically
 

1099
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,789
you know it's true like you're basically
whi lifting like a 10 to 35 lb weight

1100
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:46,799
whi lifting like a 10 to 35 lb weight
 

1101
00:19:46,799 --> 00:19:47,830
whi lifting like a 10 to 35 lb weight
>> constantly. Yeah.

1102
00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:47,840
>> constantly. Yeah.
 

1103
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,230
>> constantly. Yeah.
>> Multiple times a day, you know, and

1104
00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:50,240
>> Multiple times a day, you know, and
 

1105
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,350
>> Multiple times a day, you know, and
maybe even bigger, right? So, and dads

1106
00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:53,360
maybe even bigger, right? So, and dads
 

1107
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:55,590
maybe even bigger, right? So, and dads
are more likely to engage in physical

1108
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:55,600
are more likely to engage in physical
 

1109
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,789
are more likely to engage in physical
play of kids like lifting, throwing, um

1110
00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:58,799
play of kids like lifting, throwing, um
 

1111
00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:01,430
play of kids like lifting, throwing, um
tossing kids and um and all of that's

1112
00:20:01,430 --> 00:20:01,440
tossing kids and um and all of that's
 

1113
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:02,789
tossing kids and um and all of that's
actually really good exercise. It's

1114
00:20:02,789 --> 00:20:02,799
actually really good exercise. It's
 

1115
00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:05,110
actually really good exercise. It's
weightbearing exercise.

1116
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:05,120
weightbearing exercise.
 

1117
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:06,710
weightbearing exercise.
>> Okay. Yeah. So, probably not

1118
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:06,720
>> Okay. Yeah. So, probably not
 

1119
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,710
>> Okay. Yeah. So, probably not
physiological just I Yeah. just carrying

1120
00:20:08,710 --> 00:20:08,720
physiological just I Yeah. just carrying
 

1121
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,390
physiological just I Yeah. just carrying
them around all the time.

1122
00:20:10,390 --> 00:20:10,400
them around all the time.
 

1123
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,669
them around all the time.
>> Let's talk about um so in terms of

1124
00:20:13,669 --> 00:20:13,679
>> Let's talk about um so in terms of
 

1125
00:20:13,679 --> 00:20:15,669
>> Let's talk about um so in terms of
postpartum, obviously we know that there

1126
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:15,679
postpartum, obviously we know that there
 

1127
00:20:15,679 --> 00:20:17,510
postpartum, obviously we know that there
are women that that have postpartum.

1128
00:20:17,510 --> 00:20:17,520
are women that that have postpartum.
 

1129
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,990
are women that that have postpartum.
Very fortunately, my wife didn't have uh

1130
00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:20,000
Very fortunately, my wife didn't have uh
 

1131
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,350
Very fortunately, my wife didn't have uh
have that. She was really worried that

1132
00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:21,360
have that. She was really worried that
 

1133
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:23,029
have that. She was really worried that
she was going to for our second kid

1134
00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:23,039
she was going to for our second kid
 

1135
00:20:23,039 --> 00:20:24,950
she was going to for our second kid
because uh the pregnancy was so awful.

1136
00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:24,960
because uh the pregnancy was so awful.
 

1137
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,029
because uh the pregnancy was so awful.
She had uh hyperemmesis and was just

1138
00:20:27,029 --> 00:20:27,039
She had uh hyperemmesis and was just
 

1139
00:20:27,039 --> 00:20:28,310
She had uh hyperemmesis and was just
vomiting all the time. She's like, "This

1140
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:28,320
vomiting all the time. She's like, "This
 

1141
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:29,350
vomiting all the time. She's like, "This
is going to screw me up. I'm gonna have

1142
00:20:29,350 --> 00:20:29,360
is going to screw me up. I'm gonna have
 

1143
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:32,470
is going to screw me up. I'm gonna have
postpartum." So, she didn't. But um uh

1144
00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:32,480
postpartum." So, she didn't. But um uh
 

1145
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,190
postpartum." So, she didn't. But um uh
can dads have postpartum? Is that a

1146
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:35,200
can dads have postpartum? Is that a
 

1147
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:35,830
can dads have postpartum? Is that a
thing?

1148
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:35,840
thing?
 

1149
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,950
thing?
>> Yes. Yeah. So, and and I I think the

1150
00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:38,960
>> Yes. Yeah. So, and and I I think the
 

1151
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,669
>> Yes. Yeah. So, and and I I think the
spotlight is on moms for good reason.

1152
00:20:41,669 --> 00:20:41,679
spotlight is on moms for good reason.
 

1153
00:20:41,679 --> 00:20:43,830
spotlight is on moms for good reason.
So, there has been a lot of awareness

1154
00:20:43,830 --> 00:20:43,840
So, there has been a lot of awareness
 

1155
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,990
So, there has been a lot of awareness
raising about postpartum depression,

1156
00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:46,000
raising about postpartum depression,
 

1157
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,270
raising about postpartum depression,
mood, and anxiety disorders in new moms.

1158
00:20:49,270 --> 00:20:49,280
mood, and anxiety disorders in new moms.
 

1159
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:50,710
mood, and anxiety disorders in new moms.
We know there's heightened prevalence

1160
00:20:50,710 --> 00:20:50,720
We know there's heightened prevalence
 

1161
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,750
We know there's heightened prevalence
around the birth of a baby. But, um, new

1162
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:53,760
around the birth of a baby. But, um, new
 

1163
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,230
around the birth of a baby. But, um, new
dads are actually twice as likely to

1164
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:56,240
dads are actually twice as likely to
 

1165
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,230
dads are actually twice as likely to
report mood disorders as men in the

1166
00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:58,240
report mood disorders as men in the
 

1167
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,350
report mood disorders as men in the
general population. So, it is totally a

1168
00:21:01,350 --> 00:21:01,360
general population. So, it is totally a
 

1169
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:04,870
general population. So, it is totally a
risk for new fathers as well. And you

1170
00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:04,880
risk for new fathers as well. And you
 

1171
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,789
risk for new fathers as well. And you
know, as with depression in moms, it's

1172
00:21:06,789 --> 00:21:06,799
know, as with depression in moms, it's
 

1173
00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:08,630
know, as with depression in moms, it's
probably driven by a combination of

1174
00:21:08,630 --> 00:21:08,640
probably driven by a combination of
 

1175
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,830
probably driven by a combination of
hormone changes, sleep changes, brain

1176
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:11,840
hormone changes, sleep changes, brain
 

1177
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,310
hormone changes, sleep changes, brain
changes, lifestyle changes, and also

1178
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:14,320
changes, lifestyle changes, and also
 

1179
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,270
changes, lifestyle changes, and also
like identity and social role changes.

1180
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:17,280
like identity and social role changes.
 

1181
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,789
like identity and social role changes.
>> But it often gets missed in new dads

1182
00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:20,799
>> But it often gets missed in new dads
 

1183
00:21:20,799 --> 00:21:22,789
>> But it often gets missed in new dads
because the symptoms can look a little

1184
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:22,799
because the symptoms can look a little
 

1185
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:24,630
because the symptoms can look a little
bit different. So

1186
00:21:24,630 --> 00:21:24,640
bit different. So
 

1187
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,029
bit different. So
>> postpartum of depression in new moms can

1188
00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:27,039
>> postpartum of depression in new moms can
 

1189
00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:30,710
>> postpartum of depression in new moms can
look like sadness, crying, um what we

1190
00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:30,720
look like sadness, crying, um what we
 

1191
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,549
look like sadness, crying, um what we
call the vegetative symptoms, which is

1192
00:21:32,549 --> 00:21:32,559
call the vegetative symptoms, which is
 

1193
00:21:32,559 --> 00:21:35,029
call the vegetative symptoms, which is
like staying in bed, loss of appetite,

1194
00:21:35,029 --> 00:21:35,039
like staying in bed, loss of appetite,
 

1195
00:21:35,039 --> 00:21:38,390
like staying in bed, loss of appetite,
loss of interest in things. And in men,

1196
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:38,400
loss of interest in things. And in men,
 

1197
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,470
loss of interest in things. And in men,
depression can often manifest as like

1198
00:21:40,470 --> 00:21:40,480
depression can often manifest as like
 

1199
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,310
depression can often manifest as like
irritability, like bursts of anger, um

1200
00:21:44,310 --> 00:21:44,320
irritability, like bursts of anger, um
 

1201
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,350
irritability, like bursts of anger, um
withdrawing from the partner and baby,

1202
00:21:47,350 --> 00:21:47,360
withdrawing from the partner and baby,
 

1203
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:49,990
withdrawing from the partner and baby,
and um sometimes even like hyperfocus on

1204
00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:50,000
and um sometimes even like hyperfocus on
 

1205
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,470
and um sometimes even like hyperfocus on
work. So, you know, and it makes sense

1206
00:21:52,470 --> 00:21:52,480
work. So, you know, and it makes sense
 

1207
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:53,990
work. So, you know, and it makes sense
that these symptoms show up differently

1208
00:21:53,990 --> 00:21:54,000
that these symptoms show up differently
 

1209
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,430
that these symptoms show up differently
in part just that's because that we're

1210
00:21:55,430 --> 00:21:55,440
in part just that's because that we're
 

1211
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,430
in part just that's because that we're
of the social roles that we're playing.

1212
00:21:57,430 --> 00:21:57,440
of the social roles that we're playing.
 

1213
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:58,390
of the social roles that we're playing.
Um,

1214
00:21:58,390 --> 00:21:58,400
Um,
 

1215
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,190
Um,
>> but it means that practitioners often

1216
00:22:01,190 --> 00:22:01,200
>> but it means that practitioners often
 

1217
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,990
>> but it means that practitioners often
just don't detect what could actually be

1218
00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:04,000
just don't detect what could actually be
 

1219
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,070
just don't detect what could actually be
a mood disorder in men. They just think

1220
00:22:06,070 --> 00:22:06,080
a mood disorder in men. They just think
 

1221
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,430
a mood disorder in men. They just think
he's like cranky and like not bonding,

1222
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:09,440
he's like cranky and like not bonding,
 

1223
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,909
he's like cranky and like not bonding,
>> right? It also it sounds a little bit uh

1224
00:22:11,909 --> 00:22:11,919
>> right? It also it sounds a little bit uh
 

1225
00:22:11,919 --> 00:22:13,909
>> right? It also it sounds a little bit uh
similar to just being a bad father. It's

1226
00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:13,919
similar to just being a bad father. It's
 

1227
00:22:13,919 --> 00:22:16,549
similar to just being a bad father. It's
just like I have postpartum. You don't

1228
00:22:16,549 --> 00:22:16,559
just like I have postpartum. You don't
 

1229
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:17,270
just like I have postpartum. You don't
have to

1230
00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:17,280
have to
 

1231
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,590
have to
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you wonder like

1232
00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:19,600
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you wonder like
 

1233
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,310
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you wonder like
how many cases of father absence or like

1234
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:22,320
how many cases of father absence or like
 

1235
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,310
how many cases of father absence or like
father neglect are actually just driven

1236
00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:24,320
father neglect are actually just driven
 

1237
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:24,470
father neglect are actually just driven
by

1238
00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:24,480
by
 

1239
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,950
by
>> underosed what the overlap is there.

1240
00:22:26,950 --> 00:22:26,960
>> underosed what the overlap is there.
 

1241
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:27,750
>> underosed what the overlap is there.
>> Yeah.

1242
00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:27,760
>> Yeah.
 

1243
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,310
>> Yeah.
>> I I think I mean so I guess one question

1244
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:30,320
>> I I think I mean so I guess one question
 

1245
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,390
>> I I think I mean so I guess one question
I really have is that like if we're

1246
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:32,400
I really have is that like if we're
 

1247
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,669
I really have is that like if we're
identifying hormonal changes for me the

1248
00:22:35,669 --> 00:22:35,679
identifying hormonal changes for me the
 

1249
00:22:35,679 --> 00:22:38,149
identifying hormonal changes for me the
physical impetus of the of the hormonal

1250
00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:38,159
physical impetus of the of the hormonal
 

1251
00:22:38,159 --> 00:22:40,070
physical impetus of the of the hormonal
changes in a mother are very obvious

1252
00:22:40,070 --> 00:22:40,080
changes in a mother are very obvious
 

1253
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:41,669
changes in a mother are very obvious
because it's responding to something

1254
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:41,679
because it's responding to something
 

1255
00:22:41,679 --> 00:22:44,149
because it's responding to something
happening internally. But for a father,

1256
00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:44,159
happening internally. But for a father,
 

1257
00:22:44,159 --> 00:22:46,870
happening internally. But for a father,
do we understand the mechanisms by which

1258
00:22:46,870 --> 00:22:46,880
do we understand the mechanisms by which
 

1259
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,870
do we understand the mechanisms by which
those hormonal changes can occur?

1260
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:48,880
those hormonal changes can occur?
 

1261
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,470
those hormonal changes can occur?
Because to me the input is not so

1262
00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:50,480
Because to me the input is not so
 

1263
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,110
Because to me the input is not so
obvious. Um what what is it?

1264
00:22:53,110 --> 00:22:53,120
obvious. Um what what is it?
 

1265
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:54,870
obvious. Um what what is it?
>> Yeah, it's a great question and I feel

1266
00:22:54,870 --> 00:22:54,880
>> Yeah, it's a great question and I feel
 

1267
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,710
>> Yeah, it's a great question and I feel
like the field has not completely nailed

1268
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:56,720
like the field has not completely nailed
 

1269
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,029
like the field has not completely nailed
this down. I have done a lot of work on

1270
00:22:59,029 --> 00:22:59,039
this down. I have done a lot of work on
 

1271
00:22:59,039 --> 00:23:00,950
this down. I have done a lot of work on
uh hormonal co-regulation within

1272
00:23:00,950 --> 00:23:00,960
uh hormonal co-regulation within
 

1273
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,549
uh hormonal co-regulation within
cohabiting couples.

1274
00:23:02,549 --> 00:23:02,559
cohabiting couples.
 

1275
00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:05,110
cohabiting couples.
>> So there is some evidence that when

1276
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:05,120
>> So there is some evidence that when
 

1277
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:06,630
>> So there is some evidence that when
people live together, they start to

1278
00:23:06,630 --> 00:23:06,640
people live together, they start to
 

1279
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,350
people live together, they start to
match in their hormone levels. And I

1280
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:09,360
match in their hormone levels. And I
 

1281
00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:10,870
match in their hormone levels. And I
found this both in transition to

1282
00:23:10,870 --> 00:23:10,880
found this both in transition to
 

1283
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,029
found this both in transition to
parenthood context and non-transition to

1284
00:23:13,029 --> 00:23:13,039
parenthood context and non-transition to
 

1285
00:23:13,039 --> 00:23:15,029
parenthood context and non-transition to
parenthood context. So we see

1286
00:23:15,029 --> 00:23:15,039
parenthood context. So we see
 

1287
00:23:15,039 --> 00:23:17,750
parenthood context. So we see
correlations in levels of cortisol um

1288
00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:17,760
correlations in levels of cortisol um
 

1289
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,950
correlations in levels of cortisol um
prolactin testosterone. So part of it is

1290
00:23:20,950 --> 00:23:20,960
prolactin testosterone. So part of it is
 

1291
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,710
prolactin testosterone. So part of it is
probably just like within partner kind

1292
00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:22,720
probably just like within partner kind
 

1293
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,430
probably just like within partner kind
of entrainment. Part of it might be like

1294
00:23:25,430 --> 00:23:25,440
of entrainment. Part of it might be like
 

1295
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,590
of entrainment. Part of it might be like
shared routines like we know that sleep

1296
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:27,600
shared routines like we know that sleep
 

1297
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,909
shared routines like we know that sleep
and circadian rhythms determine a lot of

1298
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:29,919
and circadian rhythms determine a lot of
 

1299
00:23:29,919 --> 00:23:32,470
and circadian rhythms determine a lot of
hormone trajectories. A lot of them have

1300
00:23:32,470 --> 00:23:32,480
hormone trajectories. A lot of them have
 

1301
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,350
hormone trajectories. A lot of them have
>> dal rhythms. So when sleep is disrupted

1302
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:35,360
>> dal rhythms. So when sleep is disrupted
 

1303
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,070
>> dal rhythms. So when sleep is disrupted
our hormones look different. But um you

1304
00:23:38,070 --> 00:23:38,080
our hormones look different. But um you
 

1305
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,149
our hormones look different. But um you
know with hormones like testosterone you

1306
00:23:40,149 --> 00:23:40,159
know with hormones like testosterone you
 

1307
00:23:40,159 --> 00:23:43,190
know with hormones like testosterone you
actually see shifts around reproductive

1308
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:43,200
actually see shifts around reproductive
 

1309
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,750
actually see shifts around reproductive
windows even in other species like a lot

1310
00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:45,760
windows even in other species like a lot
 

1311
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,590
windows even in other species like a lot
of the work on testosterone was done in

1312
00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:47,600
of the work on testosterone was done in
 

1313
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,470
of the work on testosterone was done in
birds and like a lot of the early work

1314
00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:50,480
birds and like a lot of the early work
 

1315
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,789
birds and like a lot of the early work
and there's evidence that um you know

1316
00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:52,799
and there's evidence that um you know
 

1317
00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:55,110
and there's evidence that um you know
like during reproductive uh like mating

1318
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:55,120
like during reproductive uh like mating
 

1319
00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:58,230
like during reproductive uh like mating
season male birds show spikes in

1320
00:23:58,230 --> 00:23:58,240
season male birds show spikes in
 

1321
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,149
season male birds show spikes in
testosterone and then once they

1322
00:24:00,149 --> 00:24:00,159
testosterone and then once they
 

1323
00:24:00,159 --> 00:24:03,270
testosterone and then once they
successfully mate and have offspring

1324
00:24:03,270 --> 00:24:03,280
successfully mate and have offspring
 

1325
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,190
successfully mate and have offspring
their testosterone drops. So, it's a

1326
00:24:05,190 --> 00:24:05,200
their testosterone drops. So, it's a
 

1327
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:06,549
their testosterone drops. So, it's a
pattern that looks just like what we see

1328
00:24:06,549 --> 00:24:06,559
pattern that looks just like what we see
 

1329
00:24:06,559 --> 00:24:07,750
pattern that looks just like what we see
in human men,

1330
00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:07,760
in human men,
 

1331
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:08,149
in human men,
>> right?

1332
00:24:08,149 --> 00:24:08,159
>> right?
 

1333
00:24:08,159 --> 00:24:11,430
>> right?
>> And it's it's probably serving those

1334
00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:11,440
>> And it's it's probably serving those
 

1335
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:12,950
>> And it's it's probably serving those
different roles. Like when you have to

1336
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:12,960
different roles. Like when you have to
 

1337
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,630
different roles. Like when you have to
compete for mates,

1338
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:14,640
compete for mates,
 

1339
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,630
compete for mates,
>> you want to be aggressive, status

1340
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:16,640
>> you want to be aggressive, status
 

1341
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,630
>> you want to be aggressive, status
seeking, competitive.

1342
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:18,640
seeking, competitive.
 

1343
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,750
seeking, competitive.
>> Um, and when you need to invest in

1344
00:24:21,750 --> 00:24:21,760
>> Um, and when you need to invest in
 

1345
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,470
>> Um, and when you need to invest in
nurturing um to make sure your offspring

1346
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:24,480
nurturing um to make sure your offspring
 

1347
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,549
nurturing um to make sure your offspring
actually survive, you need to be

1348
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:26,559
actually survive, you need to be
 

1349
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:29,590
actually survive, you need to be
patient, you know, non-combative.

1350
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:29,600
patient, you know, non-combative.
 

1351
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,830
patient, you know, non-combative.
So your repertoire is going to shift and

1352
00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:31,840
So your repertoire is going to shift and
 

1353
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,510
So your repertoire is going to shift and
and so we see these kind of like

1354
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:33,520
and so we see these kind of like
 

1355
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,070
and so we see these kind of like
seasonal shifts in lots of different

1356
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:36,080
seasonal shifts in lots of different
 

1357
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:36,630
seasonal shifts in lots of different
species.

1358
00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:36,640
species.
 

1359
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,070
species.
>> That's so fascinating. Yeah. And it is

1360
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:38,080
>> That's so fascinating. Yeah. And it is
 

1361
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:39,590
>> That's so fascinating. Yeah. And it is
across the animal kingdom. So there's

1362
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:39,600
across the animal kingdom. So there's
 

1363
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,750
across the animal kingdom. So there's
very clear biological impetus for it.

1364
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:41,760
very clear biological impetus for it.
 

1365
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:42,310
very clear biological impetus for it.
>> Yeah.

1366
00:24:42,310 --> 00:24:42,320
>> Yeah.
 

1367
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,390
>> Yeah.
>> Speaking of So yeah, we're talking about

1368
00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:44,400
>> Speaking of So yeah, we're talking about
 

1369
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,190
>> Speaking of So yeah, we're talking about
the shift or the hormonal shift for a

1370
00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:47,200
the shift or the hormonal shift for a
 

1371
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,750
the shift or the hormonal shift for a
benefit of of you know parenting. Let's

1372
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:49,760
benefit of of you know parenting. Let's
 

1373
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,909
benefit of of you know parenting. Let's
talking about kind of the cultural stuff

1374
00:24:51,909 --> 00:24:51,919
talking about kind of the cultural stuff
 

1375
00:24:51,919 --> 00:24:54,630
talking about kind of the cultural stuff
in terms of parenting styles, mothers

1376
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:54,640
in terms of parenting styles, mothers
 

1377
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,070
in terms of parenting styles, mothers
and fathers. Are there is do we see any

1378
00:24:58,070 --> 00:24:58,080
and fathers. Are there is do we see any
 

1379
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,710
and fathers. Are there is do we see any
trends about in terms of like unique

1380
00:25:00,710 --> 00:25:00,720
trends about in terms of like unique
 

1381
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,390
trends about in terms of like unique
ways that fathers parent that's

1382
00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:02,400
ways that fathers parent that's
 

1383
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,070
ways that fathers parent that's
different from mothers? What can we say

1384
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:04,080
different from mothers? What can we say
 

1385
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:04,789
different from mothers? What can we say
about that?

1386
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:04,799
about that?
 

1387
00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:07,990
about that?
>> Yeah, definitely. So, we often think of

1388
00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:08,000
>> Yeah, definitely. So, we often think of
 

1389
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,870
>> Yeah, definitely. So, we often think of
dads as more like the physical playmate.

1390
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:10,880
dads as more like the physical playmate.
 

1391
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,669
dads as more like the physical playmate.
And there is some evidence that uh not

1392
00:25:13,669 --> 00:25:13,679
And there is some evidence that uh not
 

1393
00:25:13,679 --> 00:25:15,990
And there is some evidence that uh not
just human males but males like primates

1394
00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:16,000
just human males but males like primates
 

1395
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,350
just human males but males like primates
that are involved in um caregiving are

1396
00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:19,360
that are involved in um caregiving are
 

1397
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:22,710
that are involved in um caregiving are
just more involved in like um risktaking

1398
00:25:22,710 --> 00:25:22,720
just more involved in like um risktaking
 

1399
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,870
just more involved in like um risktaking
like exploratory play. So you think

1400
00:25:24,870 --> 00:25:24,880
like exploratory play. So you think
 

1401
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,430
like exploratory play. So you think
about the prototypical like tossing your

1402
00:25:27,430 --> 00:25:27,440
about the prototypical like tossing your
 

1403
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,990
about the prototypical like tossing your
toddler up in the air and catching them

1404
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:30,000
toddler up in the air and catching them
 

1405
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,510
toddler up in the air and catching them
um chasing them around um tickling them,

1406
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:33,520
um chasing them around um tickling them,
 

1407
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,510
um chasing them around um tickling them,
right? So and it turns out that kind of

1408
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:35,520
right? So and it turns out that kind of
 

1409
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,830
right? So and it turns out that kind of
play is really good for kids because it

1410
00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:37,840
play is really good for kids because it
 

1411
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,830
play is really good for kids because it
actually tests their limits and it

1412
00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:39,840
actually tests their limits and it
 

1413
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,430
actually tests their limits and it
boosts their confidence and so like like

1414
00:25:43,430 --> 00:25:43,440
boosts their confidence and so like like
 

1415
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,430
boosts their confidence and so like like
kids need that kind of like more dad

1416
00:25:45,430 --> 00:25:45,440
kids need that kind of like more dad
 

1417
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,549
kids need that kind of like more dad
style play um as they kind of develop

1418
00:25:48,549 --> 00:25:48,559
style play um as they kind of develop
 

1419
00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:50,950
style play um as they kind of develop
and learn how to self-regulate. And

1420
00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:50,960
and learn how to self-regulate. And
 

1421
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,549
and learn how to self-regulate. And
there's that there's a lot of evidence

1422
00:25:52,549 --> 00:25:52,559
there's that there's a lot of evidence
 

1423
00:25:52,559 --> 00:25:54,789
there's that there's a lot of evidence
that dads who are more involved in early

1424
00:25:54,789 --> 00:25:54,799
that dads who are more involved in early
 

1425
00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:56,710
that dads who are more involved in early
childhood, those kids have better peer

1426
00:25:56,710 --> 00:25:56,720
childhood, those kids have better peer
 

1427
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,549
childhood, those kids have better peer
relationships, like better outcomes

1428
00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:58,559
relationships, like better outcomes
 

1429
00:25:58,559 --> 00:26:00,470
relationships, like better outcomes
across a lot of domains.

1430
00:26:00,470 --> 00:26:00,480
across a lot of domains.
 

1431
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,350
across a lot of domains.
>> Um, it is somewhat cultural. So like

1432
00:26:03,350 --> 00:26:03,360
>> Um, it is somewhat cultural. So like
 

1433
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:05,830
>> Um, it is somewhat cultural. So like
Hunter Gather research finds that dads

1434
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:05,840
Hunter Gather research finds that dads
 

1435
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:07,350
Hunter Gather research finds that dads
actually aren't that much more engaged

1436
00:26:07,350 --> 00:26:07,360
actually aren't that much more engaged
 

1437
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:09,750
actually aren't that much more engaged
in physical risk-taking play than moms.

1438
00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:09,760
in physical risk-taking play than moms.
 

1439
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,590
in physical risk-taking play than moms.
So part of it is just like a social role

1440
00:26:11,590 --> 00:26:11,600
So part of it is just like a social role
 

1441
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:11,990
So part of it is just like a social role
thing,

1442
00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:12,000
thing,
 

1443
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,110
thing,
>> right? Um, but we do see this sort of

1444
00:26:15,110 --> 00:26:15,120
>> right? Um, but we do see this sort of
 

1445
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:17,350
>> right? Um, but we do see this sort of
like, you know, this unique style of

1446
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:17,360
like, you know, this unique style of
 

1447
00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:19,510
like, you know, this unique style of
father play has in some studies been

1448
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:19,520
father play has in some studies been
 

1449
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,269
father play has in some studies been
linked with things like levels of

1450
00:26:21,269 --> 00:26:21,279
linked with things like levels of
 

1451
00:26:21,279 --> 00:26:22,950
linked with things like levels of
oxytocin

1452
00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:22,960
oxytocin
 

1453
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,669
oxytocin
and um, you know, father's sort of own

1454
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:25,679
and um, you know, father's sort of own
 

1455
00:26:25,679 --> 00:26:27,430
and um, you know, father's sort of own
enjoyment of the parenting role. So, it

1456
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:27,440
enjoyment of the parenting role. So, it
 

1457
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,190
enjoyment of the parenting role. So, it
seems like there's like so many things.

1458
00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:29,200
seems like there's like so many things.
 

1459
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:30,950
seems like there's like so many things.
It's like a mix of the biology and the

1460
00:26:30,950 --> 00:26:30,960
It's like a mix of the biology and the
 

1461
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,549
It's like a mix of the biology and the
culture. It also kind of uh just in

1462
00:26:34,549 --> 00:26:34,559
culture. It also kind of uh just in
 

1463
00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:36,870
culture. It also kind of uh just in
terms of the the cultural shift towards

1464
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:36,880
terms of the the cultural shift towards
 

1465
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,430
terms of the the cultural shift towards
having kids later like I think like 50

1466
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:39,440
having kids later like I think like 50
 

1467
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,190
having kids later like I think like 50
years ago everyone was having kids in

1468
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:41,200
years ago everyone was having kids in
 

1469
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,990
years ago everyone was having kids in
their 20s whereas we you know I I had my

1470
00:26:43,990 --> 00:26:44,000
their 20s whereas we you know I I had my
 

1471
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,789
their 20s whereas we you know I I had my
kids at 36 and 39 which I think is

1472
00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:46,799
kids at 36 and 39 which I think is
 

1473
00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:48,470
kids at 36 and 39 which I think is
fairly average but it does still mean

1474
00:26:48,470 --> 00:26:48,480
fairly average but it does still mean
 

1475
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,870
fairly average but it does still mean
that I'm in my 40s with little kids and

1476
00:26:50,870 --> 00:26:50,880
that I'm in my 40s with little kids and
 

1477
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,630
that I'm in my 40s with little kids and
and it's you know you're talking about

1478
00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:52,640
and it's you know you're talking about
 

1479
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,230
and it's you know you're talking about
the chasing and this stuff is like I

1480
00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:54,240
the chasing and this stuff is like I
 

1481
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,310
the chasing and this stuff is like I
totally love doing that but but you know

1482
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:56,320
totally love doing that but but you know
 

1483
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:57,990
totally love doing that but but you know
there's like okay daddy's tired I'm

1484
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:58,000
there's like okay daddy's tired I'm
 

1485
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,789
there's like okay daddy's tired I'm
going to rest now whereas if I was 27 I

1486
00:27:00,789 --> 00:27:00,799
going to rest now whereas if I was 27 I
 

1487
00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:02,630
going to rest now whereas if I was 27 I
might have more energy. H maybe I'm

1488
00:27:02,630 --> 00:27:02,640
might have more energy. H maybe I'm
 

1489
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,149
might have more energy. H maybe I'm
shortch changing them, but I couldn't

1490
00:27:04,149 --> 00:27:04,159
shortch changing them, but I couldn't
 

1491
00:27:04,159 --> 00:27:05,909
shortch changing them, but I couldn't
have had them when I was in my 20s cuz I

1492
00:27:05,909 --> 00:27:05,919
have had them when I was in my 20s cuz I
 

1493
00:27:05,919 --> 00:27:09,110
have had them when I was in my 20s cuz I
was broke, so they couldn't have all

1494
00:27:09,110 --> 00:27:09,120
was broke, so they couldn't have all
 

1495
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:11,430
was broke, so they couldn't have all
>> I know. I think it's a tra I think about

1496
00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:11,440
>> I know. I think it's a tra I think about
 

1497
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,590
>> I know. I think it's a tra I think about
this all the time cuz Yeah, like I I had

1498
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:13,600
this all the time cuz Yeah, like I I had
 

1499
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,510
this all the time cuz Yeah, like I I had
my kids in my 30s, too. And it's like,

1500
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:15,520
my kids in my 30s, too. And it's like,
 

1501
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,029
my kids in my 30s, too. And it's like,
oh, I probably could have dealt with the

1502
00:27:17,029 --> 00:27:17,039
oh, I probably could have dealt with the
 

1503
00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:19,110
oh, I probably could have dealt with the
sleep deprivation a lot better 10 years

1504
00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:19,120
sleep deprivation a lot better 10 years
 

1505
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:21,190
sleep deprivation a lot better 10 years
ago, but then again, I was a giant

1506
00:27:21,190 --> 00:27:21,200
ago, but then again, I was a giant
 

1507
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,510
ago, but then again, I was a giant
flake. I don't I I would have like, you

1508
00:27:23,510 --> 00:27:23,520
flake. I don't I I would have like, you
 

1509
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,190
flake. I don't I I would have like, you
know, forgot to sign them up for

1510
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:25,200
know, forgot to sign them up for
 

1511
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:26,710
know, forgot to sign them up for
preschool. So, who knows?

1512
00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:26,720
preschool. So, who knows?
 

1513
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,230
preschool. So, who knows?
>> I don't know. I think it I think it

1514
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:28,240
>> I don't know. I think it I think it
 

1515
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,470
>> I don't know. I think it I think it
worked out fine. But uh yeah, because I

1516
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:30,480
worked out fine. But uh yeah, because I
 

1517
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,149
worked out fine. But uh yeah, because I
mean yeah, some people have kids in

1518
00:27:32,149 --> 00:27:32,159
mean yeah, some people have kids in
 

1519
00:27:32,159 --> 00:27:33,590
mean yeah, some people have kids in
their 40s and then they're in their 50s

1520
00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:33,600
their 40s and then they're in their 50s
 

1521
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,110
their 40s and then they're in their 50s
with young kids. Yeah. I don't know. I

1522
00:27:35,110 --> 00:27:35,120
with young kids. Yeah. I don't know. I
 

1523
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:36,549
with young kids. Yeah. I don't know. I
think I I kind of split the difference

1524
00:27:36,549 --> 00:27:36,559
think I I kind of split the difference
 

1525
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:37,510
think I I kind of split the difference
pretty well.

1526
00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:37,520
pretty well.
 

1527
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:37,750
pretty well.
>> Yeah.

1528
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:37,760
>> Yeah.
 

1529
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,789
>> Yeah.
>> But um yeah, talking about, you know,

1530
00:27:40,789 --> 00:27:40,799
>> But um yeah, talking about, you know,
 

1531
00:27:40,799 --> 00:27:43,190
>> But um yeah, talking about, you know,
mothers and fathers together, what how

1532
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:43,200
mothers and fathers together, what how
 

1533
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,029
mothers and fathers together, what how
does that relationship change? You know,

1534
00:27:45,029 --> 00:27:45,039
does that relationship change? You know,
 

1535
00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:46,870
does that relationship change? You know,
you have that bond. I mean, not

1536
00:27:46,870 --> 00:27:46,880
you have that bond. I mean, not
 

1537
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,470
you have that bond. I mean, not
everybody. Some people kind of like have

1538
00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:48,480
everybody. Some people kind of like have
 

1539
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,789
everybody. Some people kind of like have
a whoopsie kid and then decide to tie

1540
00:27:50,789 --> 00:27:50,799
a whoopsie kid and then decide to tie
 

1541
00:27:50,799 --> 00:27:52,470
a whoopsie kid and then decide to tie
the knot. But, you know, if if you're if

1542
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:52,480
the knot. But, you know, if if you're if
 

1543
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:53,909
the knot. But, you know, if if you're if
you're a couple that has been planning

1544
00:27:53,909 --> 00:27:53,919
you're a couple that has been planning
 

1545
00:27:53,919 --> 00:27:55,830
you're a couple that has been planning
to have children and then you you go

1546
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:55,840
to have children and then you you go
 

1547
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,350
to have children and then you you go
ahead and you do that, what what does

1548
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:57,360
ahead and you do that, what what does
 

1549
00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:59,830
ahead and you do that, what what does
that look like in that transition?

1550
00:27:59,830 --> 00:27:59,840
that look like in that transition?
 

1551
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:01,669
that look like in that transition?
>> Yeah. So, we know the transition to

1552
00:28:01,669 --> 00:28:01,679
>> Yeah. So, we know the transition to
 

1553
00:28:01,679 --> 00:28:03,669
>> Yeah. So, we know the transition to
parenthood is a high-risisk time for

1554
00:28:03,669 --> 00:28:03,679
parenthood is a high-risisk time for
 

1555
00:28:03,679 --> 00:28:06,470
parenthood is a high-risisk time for
couple relationship satisfactions. So,

1556
00:28:06,470 --> 00:28:06,480
couple relationship satisfactions. So,
 

1557
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,750
couple relationship satisfactions. So,
um ever since the 50s, researchers have

1558
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:09,760
um ever since the 50s, researchers have
 

1559
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,669
um ever since the 50s, researchers have
called it like a crisis event for the

1560
00:28:11,669 --> 00:28:11,679
called it like a crisis event for the
 

1561
00:28:11,679 --> 00:28:14,070
called it like a crisis event for the
marriage. So we see this kind of nose

1562
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:14,080
marriage. So we see this kind of nose
 

1563
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,070
marriage. So we see this kind of nose
dive in relationship quality usually

1564
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:16,080
dive in relationship quality usually
 

1565
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,310
dive in relationship quality usually
around the birth of a child. Um which is

1566
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:18,320
around the birth of a child. Um which is
 

1567
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,789
around the birth of a child. Um which is
kind of a bummer but I think the upside

1568
00:28:20,789 --> 00:28:20,799
kind of a bummer but I think the upside
 

1569
00:28:20,799 --> 00:28:23,990
kind of a bummer but I think the upside
is when if couples can figure it out and

1570
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:24,000
is when if couples can figure it out and
 

1571
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,310
is when if couples can figure it out and
stick it out relationship quality might

1572
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:26,320
stick it out relationship quality might
 

1573
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,870
stick it out relationship quality might
rebound you know as kids get older. So

1574
00:28:28,870 --> 00:28:28,880
rebound you know as kids get older. So
 

1575
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,789
rebound you know as kids get older. So
like some um relationships dissolve um

1576
00:28:32,789 --> 00:28:32,799
like some um relationships dissolve um
 

1577
00:28:32,799 --> 00:28:35,110
like some um relationships dissolve um
other couples are able to you know

1578
00:28:35,110 --> 00:28:35,120
other couples are able to you know
 

1579
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:36,870
other couples are able to you know
recover and improve relationship

1580
00:28:36,870 --> 00:28:36,880
recover and improve relationship
 

1581
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,070
recover and improve relationship
quality. You see these different

1582
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:38,080
quality. You see these different
 

1583
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,789
quality. You see these different
trajectories but um you know it makes

1584
00:28:40,789 --> 00:28:40,799
trajectories but um you know it makes
 

1585
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:42,310
trajectories but um you know it makes
sense. It's a risky time for the

1586
00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:42,320
sense. It's a risky time for the
 

1587
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,190
sense. It's a risky time for the
relationship, not only because of sleep

1588
00:28:45,190 --> 00:28:45,200
relationship, not only because of sleep
 

1589
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,269
relationship, not only because of sleep
changes, lifestyle changes, but also

1590
00:28:47,269 --> 00:28:47,279
changes, lifestyle changes, but also
 

1591
00:28:47,279 --> 00:28:51,190
changes, lifestyle changes, but also
like identity changes, and just the the

1592
00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:51,200
like identity changes, and just the the
 

1593
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,710
like identity changes, and just the the
responsibilities

1594
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:52,720
responsibilities
 

1595
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,669
responsibilities
and um division of child care, household

1596
00:28:55,669 --> 00:28:55,679
and um division of child care, household
 

1597
00:28:55,679 --> 00:28:58,310
and um division of child care, household
labor is often like a huge sore point

1598
00:28:58,310 --> 00:28:58,320
labor is often like a huge sore point
 

1599
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,789
labor is often like a huge sore point
between couples. Frequently, you know,

1600
00:29:02,789 --> 00:29:02,799
between couples. Frequently, you know,
 

1601
00:29:02,799 --> 00:29:04,310
between couples. Frequently, you know,
men will compare themselves to what

1602
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:04,320
men will compare themselves to what
 

1603
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:05,830
men will compare themselves to what
their fathers and grandfathers were

1604
00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:05,840
their fathers and grandfathers were
 

1605
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,070
their fathers and grandfathers were
doing and think like, I'm so involved.

1606
00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:08,080
doing and think like, I'm so involved.
 

1607
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,870
doing and think like, I'm so involved.
I'm so helpful. women will compare their

1608
00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:10,880
I'm so helpful. women will compare their
 

1609
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,470
I'm so helpful. women will compare their
partners to themselves and think, "I'm

1610
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:12,480
partners to themselves and think, "I'm
 

1611
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,549
partners to themselves and think, "I'm
still doing most of it." Right? So, that

1612
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:14,559
still doing most of it." Right? So, that
 

1613
00:29:14,559 --> 00:29:16,870
still doing most of it." Right? So, that
can be a huge kind of lightning rod for

1614
00:29:16,870 --> 00:29:16,880
can be a huge kind of lightning rod for
 

1615
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,269
can be a huge kind of lightning rod for
conflict between couples, you know,

1616
00:29:19,269 --> 00:29:19,279
conflict between couples, you know,
 

1617
00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:21,990
conflict between couples, you know,
because we are in this changing um world

1618
00:29:21,990 --> 00:29:22,000
because we are in this changing um world
 

1619
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,549
because we are in this changing um world
in which women are earning more income.

1620
00:29:24,549 --> 00:29:24,559
in which women are earning more income.
 

1621
00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:26,950
in which women are earning more income.
Um but our social roles in the household

1622
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:26,960
Um but our social roles in the household
 

1623
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,110
Um but our social roles in the household
haven't totally evolved to kind of like

1624
00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:29,120
haven't totally evolved to kind of like
 

1625
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,549
haven't totally evolved to kind of like
fit that yet.

1626
00:29:30,549 --> 00:29:30,559
fit that yet.
 

1627
00:29:30,559 --> 00:29:32,950
fit that yet.
>> Yeah, totally. I mean, there's a lot

1628
00:29:32,950 --> 00:29:32,960
>> Yeah, totally. I mean, there's a lot
 

1629
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,510
>> Yeah, totally. I mean, there's a lot
more kind of hybrid like earning and

1630
00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:35,520
more kind of hybrid like earning and
 

1631
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,590
more kind of hybrid like earning and
responsibility dynamics. I found myself

1632
00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:37,600
responsibility dynamics. I found myself
 

1633
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,310
responsibility dynamics. I found myself
in a very traditional situation. Not

1634
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:40,320
in a very traditional situation. Not
 

1635
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,230
in a very traditional situation. Not
because we're traditional people by any

1636
00:29:42,230 --> 00:29:42,240
because we're traditional people by any
 

1637
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,070
because we're traditional people by any
means. I abhore gender rules, but it

1638
00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:44,080
means. I abhore gender rules, but it
 

1639
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,269
means. I abhore gender rules, but it
just kind of ended up being like, "All

1640
00:29:45,269 --> 00:29:45,279
just kind of ended up being like, "All
 

1641
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:46,789
just kind of ended up being like, "All
right, I figured out how to earn money,

1642
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:46,799
right, I figured out how to earn money,
 

1643
00:29:46,799 --> 00:29:48,149
right, I figured out how to earn money,
so I'll earn all the money, but then,

1644
00:29:48,149 --> 00:29:48,159
so I'll earn all the money, but then,
 

1645
00:29:48,159 --> 00:29:50,070
so I'll earn all the money, but then,
you know, help as much as I can." But it

1646
00:29:50,070 --> 00:29:50,080
you know, help as much as I can." But it
 

1647
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,950
you know, help as much as I can." But it
is, yeah, I I do feel bad for couples

1648
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:52,960
is, yeah, I I do feel bad for couples
 

1649
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,470
is, yeah, I I do feel bad for couples
that kind of like can't make it through

1650
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:54,480
that kind of like can't make it through
 

1651
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,870
that kind of like can't make it through
that. I will say that like having a

1652
00:29:56,870 --> 00:29:56,880
that. I will say that like having a
 

1653
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,110
that. I will say that like having a
three-year-old toddler with level two

1654
00:29:59,110 --> 00:29:59,120
three-year-old toddler with level two
 

1655
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,190
three-year-old toddler with level two
autism and then a newborn when my second

1656
00:30:01,190 --> 00:30:01,200
autism and then a newborn when my second
 

1657
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:02,950
autism and then a newborn when my second
one was born was by far the most

1658
00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:02,960
one was born was by far the most
 

1659
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:04,630
one was born was by far the most
stressful time of my life. And like we

1660
00:30:04,630 --> 00:30:04,640
stressful time of my life. And like we
 

1661
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,630
stressful time of my life. And like we
we definitely weren't at it with each

1662
00:30:06,630 --> 00:30:06,640
we definitely weren't at it with each
 

1663
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,190
we definitely weren't at it with each
other. We were just kind of stressed

1664
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:09,200
other. We were just kind of stressed
 

1665
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,149
other. We were just kind of stressed
together and just like but then you kind

1666
00:30:12,149 --> 00:30:12,159
together and just like but then you kind
 

1667
00:30:12,159 --> 00:30:14,310
together and just like but then you kind
of I mean it's so much easier now. It's

1668
00:30:14,310 --> 00:30:14,320
of I mean it's so much easier now. It's
 

1669
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,389
of I mean it's so much easier now. It's
still having kids is stressful but yeah

1670
00:30:16,389 --> 00:30:16,399
still having kids is stressful but yeah
 

1671
00:30:16,399 --> 00:30:18,389
still having kids is stressful but yeah
you do kind of get out of it and then

1672
00:30:18,389 --> 00:30:18,399
you do kind of get out of it and then
 

1673
00:30:18,399 --> 00:30:20,149
you do kind of get out of it and then
you're like hey we can like go to the

1674
00:30:20,149 --> 00:30:20,159
you're like hey we can like go to the
 

1675
00:30:20,159 --> 00:30:21,830
you're like hey we can like go to the
zoo or something and everyone's having a

1676
00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:21,840
zoo or something and everyone's having a
 

1677
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,510
zoo or something and everyone's having a
great time and we're like having a great

1678
00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:23,520
great time and we're like having a great
 

1679
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,389
great time and we're like having a great
family time you know. Um so those

1680
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:26,399
family time you know. Um so those
 

1681
00:30:26,399 --> 00:30:29,110
family time you know. Um so those
rewards are are there for you. Did what

1682
00:30:29,110 --> 00:30:29,120
rewards are are there for you. Did what
 

1683
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,110
rewards are are there for you. Did what
was your experience with Dan? I mean, h

1684
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:31,120
was your experience with Dan? I mean, h
 

1685
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,029
was your experience with Dan? I mean, h
did you have ups and downs or

1686
00:30:33,029 --> 00:30:33,039
did you have ups and downs or
 

1687
00:30:33,039 --> 00:30:35,110
did you have ups and downs or
>> Definitely. And you know, like I I'm

1688
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:35,120
>> Definitely. And you know, like I I'm
 

1689
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,549
>> Definitely. And you know, like I I'm
still married to him, so that's good.

1690
00:30:36,549 --> 00:30:36,559
still married to him, so that's good.
 

1691
00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:38,070
still married to him, so that's good.
And I still like him.

1692
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:38,080
And I still like him.
 

1693
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,389
And I still like him.
>> Um, but I Yeah, like we were just so

1694
00:30:40,389 --> 00:30:40,399
>> Um, but I Yeah, like we were just so
 

1695
00:30:40,399 --> 00:30:42,870
>> Um, but I Yeah, like we were just so
tired. Like I feel like it was so easy

1696
00:30:42,870 --> 00:30:42,880
tired. Like I feel like it was so easy
 

1697
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,590
tired. Like I feel like it was so easy
to fight about stuff like the first I

1698
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:45,600
to fight about stuff like the first I
 

1699
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,430
to fight about stuff like the first I
don't know, 3 to 5 years. Like there are

1700
00:30:47,430 --> 00:30:47,440
don't know, 3 to 5 years. Like there are
 

1701
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:48,950
don't know, 3 to 5 years. Like there are
parts I don't even remember that well

1702
00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:48,960
parts I don't even remember that well
 

1703
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,310
parts I don't even remember that well
cuz I think I was just so sleepd

1704
00:30:50,310 --> 00:30:50,320
cuz I think I was just so sleepd
 

1705
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:50,950
cuz I think I was just so sleepd
deprived.

1706
00:30:50,950 --> 00:30:50,960
deprived.
 

1707
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,630
deprived.
>> Yeah. Um, and all of a sudden you're

1708
00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:52,640
>> Yeah. Um, and all of a sudden you're
 

1709
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,470
>> Yeah. Um, and all of a sudden you're
like fighting with this person you love

1710
00:30:54,470 --> 00:30:54,480
like fighting with this person you love
 

1711
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,190
like fighting with this person you love
about like who washed out the kid's

1712
00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:57,200
about like who washed out the kid's
 

1713
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,750
about like who washed out the kid's
cereal bowl and like who lost track of

1714
00:30:59,750 --> 00:30:59,760
cereal bowl and like who lost track of
 

1715
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,149
cereal bowl and like who lost track of
the stuffed animal and it's like why are

1716
00:31:02,149 --> 00:31:02,159
the stuffed animal and it's like why are
 

1717
00:31:02,159 --> 00:31:04,710
the stuffed animal and it's like why are
we doing this? But I think you're just

1718
00:31:04,710 --> 00:31:04,720
we doing this? But I think you're just
 

1719
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,990
we doing this? But I think you're just
like so exhausted and there's like so

1720
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:08,000
like so exhausted and there's like so
 

1721
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,750
like so exhausted and there's like so
much going on because your kids need you

1722
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:09,760
much going on because your kids need you
 

1723
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:10,789
much going on because your kids need you
all the time.

1724
00:31:10,789 --> 00:31:10,799
all the time.
 

1725
00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:13,350
all the time.
>> Yeah. that unless you can I think really

1726
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:13,360
>> Yeah. that unless you can I think really
 

1727
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,230
>> Yeah. that unless you can I think really
like just prioritize the relationship

1728
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:16,240
like just prioritize the relationship
 

1729
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,149
like just prioritize the relationship
and and you need to have like really

1730
00:31:18,149 --> 00:31:18,159
and and you need to have like really
 

1731
00:31:18,159 --> 00:31:21,510
and and you need to have like really
good conflict resolution skills, the

1732
00:31:21,510 --> 00:31:21,520
good conflict resolution skills, the
 

1733
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,430
good conflict resolution skills, the
relationship quality just inevitably is

1734
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:23,440
relationship quality just inevitably is
 

1735
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:24,549
relationship quality just inevitably is
going to suffer a bit.

1736
00:31:24,549 --> 00:31:24,559
going to suffer a bit.
 

1737
00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:28,070
going to suffer a bit.
>> Totally. This is where smart uh

1738
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:28,080
>> Totally. This is where smart uh
 

1739
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:29,830
>> Totally. This is where smart uh
well-communicating

1740
00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:29,840
well-communicating
 

1741
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,750
well-communicating
adults have the upper hand. I mean you

1742
00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:31,760
adults have the upper hand. I mean you
 

1743
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,470
adults have the upper hand. I mean you
you and Dan strike me as as you know

1744
00:31:34,470 --> 00:31:34,480
you and Dan strike me as as you know
 

1745
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,029
you and Dan strike me as as you know
smart uh you know people who can have a

1746
00:31:37,029 --> 00:31:37,039
smart uh you know people who can have a
 

1747
00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:38,149
smart uh you know people who can have a
conversation. You know me and my wife

1748
00:31:38,149 --> 00:31:38,159
conversation. You know me and my wife
 

1749
00:31:38,159 --> 00:31:39,830
conversation. You know me and my wife
are you know my wife is a psychologist.

1750
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:39,840
are you know my wife is a psychologist.
 

1751
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,149
are you know my wife is a psychologist.
I, you know, I'm I'm a professional

1752
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:42,159
I, you know, I'm I'm a professional
 

1753
00:31:42,159 --> 00:31:44,389
I, you know, I'm I'm a professional
communicator. We I we just kind of have

1754
00:31:44,389 --> 00:31:44,399
communicator. We I we just kind of have
 

1755
00:31:44,399 --> 00:31:46,630
communicator. We I we just kind of have
that upper hand of like anything that

1756
00:31:46,630 --> 00:31:46,640
that upper hand of like anything that
 

1757
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,310
that upper hand of like anything that
could blow up, it's like, oh, you meant

1758
00:31:48,310 --> 00:31:48,320
could blow up, it's like, oh, you meant
 

1759
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,310
could blow up, it's like, oh, you meant
that. Okay, I misinterpreted that. You

1760
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:50,320
that. Okay, I misinterpreted that. You
 

1761
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:51,909
that. Okay, I misinterpreted that. You
can kind of like

1762
00:31:51,909 --> 00:31:51,919
can kind of like
 

1763
00:31:51,919 --> 00:31:53,990
can kind of like
>> dig into that. And so, here we are.

1764
00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:54,000
>> dig into that. And so, here we are.
 

1765
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,750
>> dig into that. And so, here we are.
>> Yeah. I mean, there have been some

1766
00:31:55,750 --> 00:31:55,760
>> Yeah. I mean, there have been some
 

1767
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,669
>> Yeah. I mean, there have been some
studies of couples communication

1768
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:57,679
studies of couples communication
 

1769
00:31:57,679 --> 00:31:59,830
studies of couples communication
interventions to see whether can you

1770
00:31:59,830 --> 00:31:59,840
interventions to see whether can you
 

1771
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,870
interventions to see whether can you
prevent discord around the transition to

1772
00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:02,880
prevent discord around the transition to
 

1773
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,830
prevent discord around the transition to
parenthood. So, like do couples therapy

1774
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:05,840
parenthood. So, like do couples therapy
 

1775
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,070
parenthood. So, like do couples therapy
before the birth of a baby. And some of

1776
00:32:08,070 --> 00:32:08,080
before the birth of a baby. And some of
 

1777
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,789
before the birth of a baby. And some of
those have promising results. So there

1778
00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:10,799
those have promising results. So there
 

1779
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:12,389
those have promising results. So there
is some potential for kind of like

1780
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:12,399
is some potential for kind of like
 

1781
00:32:12,399 --> 00:32:14,389
is some potential for kind of like
large-scale intervention around just

1782
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:14,399
large-scale intervention around just
 

1783
00:32:14,399 --> 00:32:16,630
large-scale intervention around just
like buffering the couple relationship

1784
00:32:16,630 --> 00:32:16,640
like buffering the couple relationship
 

1785
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,470
like buffering the couple relationship
for this inevitable.

1786
00:32:18,470 --> 00:32:18,480
for this inevitable.
 

1787
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,269
for this inevitable.
>> Absolutely. Outline expectations, kind

1788
00:32:21,269 --> 00:32:21,279
>> Absolutely. Outline expectations, kind
 

1789
00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:23,430
>> Absolutely. Outline expectations, kind
of designate the roles and you know if

1790
00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:23,440
of designate the roles and you know if
 

1791
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,110
of designate the roles and you know if
I'm too tired to do this, please do this

1792
00:32:25,110 --> 00:32:25,120
I'm too tired to do this, please do this
 

1793
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,269
I'm too tired to do this, please do this
and you know. Yeah. Yeah.

1794
00:32:27,269 --> 00:32:27,279
and you know. Yeah. Yeah.
 

1795
00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:28,389
and you know. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Totally.

1796
00:32:28,389 --> 00:32:28,399
>> Totally.
 

1797
00:32:28,399 --> 00:32:29,110
>> Totally.
>> Yeah.

1798
00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:29,120
>> Yeah.
 

1799
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,430
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. We um we force couples in our lab

1800
00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:31,440
>> Yeah. We um we force couples in our lab
 

1801
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,509
>> Yeah. We um we force couples in our lab
to have an infant care division of labor

1802
00:32:33,509 --> 00:32:33,519
to have an infant care division of labor
 

1803
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:35,830
to have an infant care division of labor
discussion in the lab. So they do it

1804
00:32:35,830 --> 00:32:35,840
discussion in the lab. So they do it
 

1805
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,149
discussion in the lab. So they do it
during pregnancy and then they come back

1806
00:32:38,149 --> 00:32:38,159
during pregnancy and then they come back
 

1807
00:32:38,159 --> 00:32:39,909
during pregnancy and then they come back
at six months postpartum with their baby

1808
00:32:39,909 --> 00:32:39,919
at six months postpartum with their baby
 

1809
00:32:39,919 --> 00:32:42,549
at six months postpartum with their baby
and they do the same discussion. And so

1810
00:32:42,549 --> 00:32:42,559
and they do the same discussion. And so
 

1811
00:32:42,559 --> 00:32:44,789
and they do the same discussion. And so
we're able to actually look at like what

1812
00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:44,799
we're able to actually look at like what
 

1813
00:32:44,799 --> 00:32:46,070
we're able to actually look at like what
did they think they were going to be

1814
00:32:46,070 --> 00:32:46,080
did they think they were going to be
 

1815
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:47,990
did they think they were going to be
doing and then what does it actually

1816
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:48,000
doing and then what does it actually
 

1817
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,630
doing and then what does it actually
look like after the baby's birth and in

1818
00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:50,640
look like after the baby's birth and in
 

1819
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,950
look like after the baby's birth and in
almost every case uh the couple is

1820
00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:52,960
almost every case uh the couple is
 

1821
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,389
almost every case uh the couple is
estimating that it's going to be a very

1822
00:32:54,389 --> 00:32:54,399
estimating that it's going to be a very
 

1823
00:32:54,399 --> 00:32:57,269
estimating that it's going to be a very
egalitarian split and then after birth

1824
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:57,279
egalitarian split and then after birth
 

1825
00:32:57,279 --> 00:32:59,029
egalitarian split and then after birth
mom is usually doing more.

1826
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:59,039
mom is usually doing more.
 

1827
00:32:59,039 --> 00:33:00,230
mom is usually doing more.
>> Yes.

1828
00:33:00,230 --> 00:33:00,240
>> Yes.
 

1829
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:01,830
>> Yes.
>> And you know a lot of that just makes

1830
00:33:01,830 --> 00:33:01,840
>> And you know a lot of that just makes
 

1831
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,269
>> And you know a lot of that just makes
sense. If she's breastfeeding there's

1832
00:33:03,269 --> 00:33:03,279
sense. If she's breastfeeding there's
 

1833
00:33:03,279 --> 00:33:05,590
sense. If she's breastfeeding there's
just more for her to do. Yeah. Yeah. I

1834
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:05,600
just more for her to do. Yeah. Yeah. I
 

1835
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,509
just more for her to do. Yeah. Yeah. I
mean, the way I always looked at it is

1836
00:33:07,509 --> 00:33:07,519
mean, the way I always looked at it is
 

1837
00:33:07,519 --> 00:33:10,310
mean, the way I always looked at it is
it's like I'm not I mean, it's

1838
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:10,320
it's like I'm not I mean, it's
 

1839
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,870
it's like I'm not I mean, it's
stereotypical, but I am not that cut out

1840
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:12,880
stereotypical, but I am not that cut out
 

1841
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:14,950
stereotypical, but I am not that cut out
for a lot of the stuff that she does.

1842
00:33:14,950 --> 00:33:14,960
for a lot of the stuff that she does.
 

1843
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:16,950
for a lot of the stuff that she does.
But the way that I feel that I can bring

1844
00:33:16,950 --> 00:33:16,960
But the way that I feel that I can bring
 

1845
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,110
But the way that I feel that I can bring
balance is that if I work really hard

1846
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:19,120
balance is that if I work really hard
 

1847
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,669
balance is that if I work really hard
and I earn extra money, hey, I can pay

1848
00:33:21,669 --> 00:33:21,679
and I earn extra money, hey, I can pay
 

1849
00:33:21,679 --> 00:33:22,950
and I earn extra money, hey, I can pay
someone to come every two weeks and

1850
00:33:22,950 --> 00:33:22,960
someone to come every two weeks and
 

1851
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,789
someone to come every two weeks and
clean the house. I can pay for somebody

1852
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:24,799
clean the house. I can pay for somebody
 

1853
00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:26,310
clean the house. I can pay for somebody
to help you with the kids here and

1854
00:33:26,310 --> 00:33:26,320
to help you with the kids here and
 

1855
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:27,350
to help you with the kids here and
there. You know, we don't have like a

1856
00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:27,360
there. You know, we don't have like a
 

1857
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:28,870
there. You know, we don't have like a
living nanny, but you know, sometimes

1858
00:33:28,870 --> 00:33:28,880
living nanny, but you know, sometimes
 

1859
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,310
living nanny, but you know, sometimes
somebody comes the house. So it's like

1860
00:33:30,310 --> 00:33:30,320
somebody comes the house. So it's like
 

1861
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,310
somebody comes the house. So it's like
if I work harder at the thing that I do,

1862
00:33:32,310 --> 00:33:32,320
if I work harder at the thing that I do,
 

1863
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,630
if I work harder at the thing that I do,
I can help you with money. So

1864
00:33:34,630 --> 00:33:34,640
I can help you with money. So
 

1865
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:34,950
I can help you with money. So
>> yeah,

1866
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:34,960
>> yeah,
 

1867
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:36,789
>> yeah,
>> that that ends up working out.

1868
00:33:36,789 --> 00:33:36,799
>> that that ends up working out.
 

1869
00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:38,230
>> that that ends up working out.
>> Yeah. And I think that that ends up

1870
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:38,240
>> Yeah. And I think that that ends up
 

1871
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:39,750
>> Yeah. And I think that that ends up
working out really well for some

1872
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:39,760
working out really well for some
 

1873
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,430
working out really well for some
couples. And I think then for other

1874
00:33:41,430 --> 00:33:41,440
couples. And I think then for other
 

1875
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,509
couples. And I think then for other
couples like you know they need to

1876
00:33:43,509 --> 00:33:43,519
couples like you know they need to
 

1877
00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:46,070
couples like you know they need to
negotiate like a different arrangement

1878
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:46,080
negotiate like a different arrangement
 

1879
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:47,029
negotiate like a different arrangement
like

1880
00:33:47,029 --> 00:33:47,039
like
 

1881
00:33:47,039 --> 00:33:49,269
like
>> um equal earner couples are the fastest

1882
00:33:49,269 --> 00:33:49,279
>> um equal earner couples are the fastest
 

1883
00:33:49,279 --> 00:33:53,190
>> um equal earner couples are the fastest
growing share of the US population. So

1884
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:53,200
growing share of the US population. So
 

1885
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,990
growing share of the US population. So
>> this this source of conflict is going to

1886
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:56,000
>> this this source of conflict is going to
 

1887
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,470
>> this this source of conflict is going to
persist in couples and I think we need

1888
00:33:58,470 --> 00:33:58,480
persist in couples and I think we need
 

1889
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,230
persist in couples and I think we need
like better skills and

1890
00:34:00,230 --> 00:34:00,240
like better skills and
 

1891
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:01,990
like better skills and
>> better understanding of just how to

1892
00:34:01,990 --> 00:34:02,000
>> better understanding of just how to
 

1893
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,590
>> better understanding of just how to
balance everything.

1894
00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:03,600
balance everything.
 

1895
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,590
balance everything.
>> Yes. When you have the equal earners

1896
00:34:05,590 --> 00:34:05,600
>> Yes. When you have the equal earners
 

1897
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,470
>> Yes. When you have the equal earners
there's so much minutia and every like

1898
00:34:08,470 --> 00:34:08,480
there's so much minutia and every like
 

1899
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,270
there's so much minutia and every like
every single task is kind of delegated

1900
00:34:11,270 --> 00:34:11,280
every single task is kind of delegated
 

1901
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,069
every single task is kind of delegated
in a in its own way. And unfortunately

1902
00:34:14,069 --> 00:34:14,079
in a in its own way. And unfortunately
 

1903
00:34:14,079 --> 00:34:17,109
in a in its own way. And unfortunately
the way the economy is just like

1904
00:34:17,109 --> 00:34:17,119
the way the economy is just like
 

1905
00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:19,349
the way the economy is just like
I feel very lucky that I c that we I can

1906
00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:19,359
I feel very lucky that I c that we I can
 

1907
00:34:19,359 --> 00:34:21,589
I feel very lucky that I c that we I can
be you know we can be single income.

1908
00:34:21,589 --> 00:34:21,599
be you know we can be single income.
 

1909
00:34:21,599 --> 00:34:21,909
be you know we can be single income.
>> Yeah.

1910
00:34:21,909 --> 00:34:21,919
>> Yeah.
 

1911
00:34:21,919 --> 00:34:23,909
>> Yeah.
>> Um but yeah.

1912
00:34:23,909 --> 00:34:23,919
>> Um but yeah.
 

1913
00:34:23,919 --> 00:34:25,990
>> Um but yeah.
>> Yeah. One thing my lab has looked at is

1914
00:34:25,990 --> 00:34:26,000
>> Yeah. One thing my lab has looked at is
 

1915
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,669
>> Yeah. One thing my lab has looked at is
um cognitive household labor. So like

1916
00:34:27,669 --> 00:34:27,679
um cognitive household labor. So like
 

1917
00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:29,909
um cognitive household labor. So like
who's planning and anticipating needs

1918
00:34:29,909 --> 00:34:29,919
who's planning and anticipating needs
 

1919
00:34:29,919 --> 00:34:31,990
who's planning and anticipating needs
because like that part of like thinking

1920
00:34:31,990 --> 00:34:32,000
because like that part of like thinking
 

1921
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,069
because like that part of like thinking
about housework is so different from

1922
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:34,079
about housework is so different from
 

1923
00:34:34,079 --> 00:34:36,710
about housework is so different from
actually just executing. Yeah. And that

1924
00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:36,720
actually just executing. Yeah. And that
 

1925
00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:38,790
actually just executing. Yeah. And that
does tend to be a piece that's held more

1926
00:34:38,790 --> 00:34:38,800
does tend to be a piece that's held more
 

1927
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,109
does tend to be a piece that's held more
traditionally by mom and it can be a

1928
00:34:41,109 --> 00:34:41,119
traditionally by mom and it can be a
 

1929
00:34:41,119 --> 00:34:43,750
traditionally by mom and it can be a
huge source of resentment in couples. So

1930
00:34:43,750 --> 00:34:43,760
huge source of resentment in couples. So
 

1931
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:44,470
huge source of resentment in couples. So
>> yeah,

1932
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:44,480
>> yeah,
 

1933
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:45,990
>> yeah,
>> finding ways to make the mental load

1934
00:34:45,990 --> 00:34:46,000
>> finding ways to make the mental load
 

1935
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,149
>> finding ways to make the mental load
more external and communicate better

1936
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:48,159
more external and communicate better
 

1937
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:50,069
more external and communicate better
about it can be another thing that can

1938
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:50,079
about it can be another thing that can
 

1939
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:52,310
about it can be another thing that can
help prevent a lot of the conflict that

1940
00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:52,320
help prevent a lot of the conflict that
 

1941
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:52,710
help prevent a lot of the conflict that
happens.

1942
00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:52,720
happens.
 

1943
00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:54,470
happens.
>> Yes. Yeah. That resentment, you can't

1944
00:34:54,470 --> 00:34:54,480
>> Yes. Yeah. That resentment, you can't
 

1945
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,030
>> Yes. Yeah. That resentment, you can't
let that fester whether it's, you know,

1946
00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:57,040
let that fester whether it's, you know,
 

1947
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,270
let that fester whether it's, you know,
income based or task based. It just

1948
00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:59,280
income based or task based. It just
 

1949
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,349
income based or task based. It just
Yeah. You can't be like, I always do

1950
00:35:01,349 --> 00:35:01,359
Yeah. You can't be like, I always do
 

1951
00:35:01,359 --> 00:35:03,190
Yeah. You can't be like, I always do
this and you never do this.

1952
00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:03,200
this and you never do this.
 

1953
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:03,829
this and you never do this.
>> That's a killer.

1954
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:03,839
>> That's a killer.
 

1955
00:35:03,839 --> 00:35:05,910
>> That's a killer.
>> Totally. Totally. Yeah,

1956
00:35:05,910 --> 00:35:05,920
>> Totally. Totally. Yeah,
 

1957
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,109
>> Totally. Totally. Yeah,
>> let's talk about uh so fatherhood, you

1958
00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:09,119
>> let's talk about uh so fatherhood, you
 

1959
00:35:09,119 --> 00:35:10,710
>> let's talk about uh so fatherhood, you
have little kids, they grow up. Now

1960
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:10,720
have little kids, they grow up. Now
 

1961
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:12,950
have little kids, they grow up. Now
you're an older gentleman, you're an old

1962
00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:12,960
you're an older gentleman, you're an old
 

1963
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,270
you're an older gentleman, you're an old
man here with adult kids. What does that

1964
00:35:15,270 --> 00:35:15,280
man here with adult kids. What does that
 

1965
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:16,710
man here with adult kids. What does that
look like psychologically? Are there

1966
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:16,720
look like psychologically? Are there
 

1967
00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:20,150
look like psychologically? Are there
benefits that that appear in old age uh

1968
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:20,160
benefits that that appear in old age uh
 

1969
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:21,270
benefits that that appear in old age uh
for fathers?

1970
00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:21,280
for fathers?
 

1971
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,030
for fathers?
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, there's actually this

1972
00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:23,040
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, there's actually this
 

1973
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,069
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, there's actually this
really cool emerging uh body of research

1974
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:26,079
really cool emerging uh body of research
 

1975
00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:27,910
really cool emerging uh body of research
finding that parenting may even be

1976
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:27,920
finding that parenting may even be
 

1977
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,510
finding that parenting may even be
neuroprotective to the aging brain. So

1978
00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:31,520
neuroprotective to the aging brain. So
 

1979
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,150
neuroprotective to the aging brain. So
um there are I think four or five

1980
00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:34,160
um there are I think four or five
 

1981
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:35,750
um there are I think four or five
studies now that have come out using

1982
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:35,760
studies now that have come out using
 

1983
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,230
studies now that have come out using
data from the UK bio bank which is this

1984
00:35:38,230 --> 00:35:38,240
data from the UK bio bank which is this
 

1985
00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:40,069
data from the UK bio bank which is this
like huge like tens of thousands of

1986
00:35:40,069 --> 00:35:40,079
like huge like tens of thousands of
 

1987
00:35:40,079 --> 00:35:42,069
like huge like tens of thousands of
neuroiming scans from people in their

1988
00:35:42,069 --> 00:35:42,079
neuroiming scans from people in their
 

1989
00:35:42,079 --> 00:35:45,190
neuroiming scans from people in their
50s and 60s and they have linked parody

1990
00:35:45,190 --> 00:35:45,200
50s and 60s and they have linked parody
 

1991
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:46,870
50s and 60s and they have linked parody
which is to say like how many children

1992
00:35:46,870 --> 00:35:46,880
which is to say like how many children
 

1993
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,950
which is to say like how many children
somebody has to markers of brain age and

1994
00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:50,960
somebody has to markers of brain age and
 

1995
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,710
somebody has to markers of brain age and
what's interesting is that for both

1996
00:35:52,710 --> 00:35:52,720
what's interesting is that for both
 

1997
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:55,510
what's interesting is that for both
mothers and fathers having had more

1998
00:35:55,510 --> 00:35:55,520
mothers and fathers having had more
 

1999
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,390
mothers and fathers having had more
children is linked with what seems to be

2000
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:58,400
children is linked with what seems to be
 

2001
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,670
children is linked with what seems to be
a younger looking like more flexible,

2002
00:36:01,670 --> 00:36:01,680
a younger looking like more flexible,
 

2003
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,630
a younger looking like more flexible,
better functioning brain. And um and

2004
00:36:04,630 --> 00:36:04,640
better functioning brain. And um and
 

2005
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,150
better functioning brain. And um and
there's kind of a sweet spot where like

2006
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:06,160
there's kind of a sweet spot where like
 

2007
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:07,510
there's kind of a sweet spot where like
with two or three kids, you get the

2008
00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:07,520
with two or three kids, you get the
 

2009
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:08,950
with two or three kids, you get the
biggest benefit and then it sort of

2010
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:08,960
biggest benefit and then it sort of
 

2011
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:10,630
biggest benefit and then it sort of
levels off. So like

2012
00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:10,640
levels off. So like
 

2013
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,069
levels off. So like
>> you don't, you know, it's not like a

2014
00:36:12,069 --> 00:36:12,079
>> you don't, you know, it's not like a
 

2015
00:36:12,079 --> 00:36:13,430
>> you don't, you know, it's not like a
linear relationship where you need to

2016
00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:13,440
linear relationship where you need to
 

2017
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,030
linear relationship where you need to
just like keep having kids.

2018
00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:15,040
just like keep having kids.
 

2019
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:15,589
just like keep having kids.
>> Um

2020
00:36:15,589 --> 00:36:15,599
>> Um
 

2021
00:36:15,599 --> 00:36:18,470
>> Um
>> yeah, having 10 kids will drive you

2022
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:18,480
>> yeah, having 10 kids will drive you
 

2023
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,670
>> yeah, having 10 kids will drive you
insane and you'll die at 50. Yeah,

2024
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:21,680
insane and you'll die at 50. Yeah,
 

2025
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,270
insane and you'll die at 50. Yeah,
>> exactly. Like it'll level off. It's not

2026
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:23,280
>> exactly. Like it'll level off. It's not
 

2027
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,510
>> exactly. Like it'll level off. It's not
that helpful after a certain point. But

2028
00:36:25,510 --> 00:36:25,520
that helpful after a certain point. But
 

2029
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,510
that helpful after a certain point. But
um but the fact that we see it for men

2030
00:36:27,510 --> 00:36:27,520
um but the fact that we see it for men
 

2031
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,670
um but the fact that we see it for men
as well as women tells us it's not just

2032
00:36:29,670 --> 00:36:29,680
as well as women tells us it's not just
 

2033
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,230
as well as women tells us it's not just
pregnancy hormones that appear to be

2034
00:36:32,230 --> 00:36:32,240
pregnancy hormones that appear to be
 

2035
00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:33,910
pregnancy hormones that appear to be
neuroprotective. It's got to be

2036
00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:33,920
neuroprotective. It's got to be
 

2037
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,710
neuroprotective. It's got to be
something else about either parenting

2038
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:36,720
something else about either parenting
 

2039
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:39,030
something else about either parenting
experience um like we talked about like

2040
00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:39,040
experience um like we talked about like
 

2041
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,750
experience um like we talked about like
experience dependent neuroplasticity

2042
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:41,760
experience dependent neuroplasticity
 

2043
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,270
experience dependent neuroplasticity
or social integration. Like we know that

2044
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:45,280
or social integration. Like we know that
 

2045
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,230
or social integration. Like we know that
um loneliness and isolation are huge

2046
00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:48,240
um loneliness and isolation are huge
 

2047
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:51,109
um loneliness and isolation are huge
risk factors for mortality in late life

2048
00:36:51,109 --> 00:36:51,119
risk factors for mortality in late life
 

2049
00:36:51,119 --> 00:36:54,310
risk factors for mortality in late life
especially in men. So like men are more

2050
00:36:54,310 --> 00:36:54,320
especially in men. So like men are more
 

2051
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,950
especially in men. So like men are more
likely to end up living alone in late

2052
00:36:56,950 --> 00:36:56,960
likely to end up living alone in late
 

2053
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,750
likely to end up living alone in late
life and um men who don't have many

2054
00:36:59,750 --> 00:36:59,760
life and um men who don't have many
 

2055
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,670
life and um men who don't have many
social connections have earlier

2056
00:37:01,670 --> 00:37:01,680
social connections have earlier
 

2057
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,030
social connections have earlier
mortality

2058
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:03,040
mortality
 

2059
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,950
mortality
>> and um and in part that's just because

2060
00:37:04,950 --> 00:37:04,960
>> and um and in part that's just because
 

2061
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,310
>> and um and in part that's just because
like women are often like have larger

2062
00:37:08,310 --> 00:37:08,320
like women are often like have larger
 

2063
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,109
like women are often like have larger
social networks. um men can be more

2064
00:37:11,109 --> 00:37:11,119
social networks. um men can be more
 

2065
00:37:11,119 --> 00:37:12,870
social networks. um men can be more
dependent on the partner

2066
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:12,880
dependent on the partner
 

2067
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,150
dependent on the partner
>> and um so it may be that having had more

2068
00:37:16,150 --> 00:37:16,160
>> and um so it may be that having had more
 

2069
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,390
>> and um so it may be that having had more
kids just sets men up to be more

2070
00:37:18,390 --> 00:37:18,400
kids just sets men up to be more
 

2071
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:19,750
kids just sets men up to be more
connected

2072
00:37:19,750 --> 00:37:19,760
connected
 

2073
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,470
connected
>> and that in itself it provides like a

2074
00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:22,480
>> and that in itself it provides like a
 

2075
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,270
>> and that in itself it provides like a
brain boost. Um but there's also work on

2076
00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:25,280
brain boost. Um but there's also work on
 

2077
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,150
brain boost. Um but there's also work on
cognitive function that finds that the

2078
00:37:28,150 --> 00:37:28,160
cognitive function that finds that the
 

2079
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,990
cognitive function that finds that the
um like working memory and um like

2080
00:37:31,990 --> 00:37:32,000
um like working memory and um like
 

2081
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,150
um like working memory and um like
response time look better if you've had

2082
00:37:34,150 --> 00:37:34,160
response time look better if you've had
 

2083
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,230
response time look better if you've had
more kids. So it may also be like mental

2084
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:36,240
more kids. So it may also be like mental
 

2085
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:38,470
more kids. So it may also be like mental
practice that you're getting. Yeah, it

2086
00:37:38,470 --> 00:37:38,480
practice that you're getting. Yeah, it
 

2087
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,310
practice that you're getting. Yeah, it
makes sense to me that performing

2088
00:37:40,310 --> 00:37:40,320
makes sense to me that performing
 

2089
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,470
makes sense to me that performing
fatherly tasks

2090
00:37:42,470 --> 00:37:42,480
fatherly tasks
 

2091
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:43,990
fatherly tasks
impacts

2092
00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:44,000
impacts
 

2093
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,910
impacts
how your brain changes over time. Yeah.

2094
00:37:45,910 --> 00:37:45,920
how your brain changes over time. Yeah.
 

2095
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:47,670
how your brain changes over time. Yeah.
No, that that completely makes sense. I

2096
00:37:47,670 --> 00:37:47,680
No, that that completely makes sense. I
 

2097
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,349
No, that that completely makes sense. I
mean, there's things that I do as a dad

2098
00:37:49,349 --> 00:37:49,359
mean, there's things that I do as a dad
 

2099
00:37:49,359 --> 00:37:53,030
mean, there's things that I do as a dad
that non-dads don't do. I mean, 100%.

2100
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:53,040
that non-dads don't do. I mean, 100%.
 

2101
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,109
that non-dads don't do. I mean, 100%.
And and even just even as simple as like

2102
00:37:55,109 --> 00:37:55,119
And and even just even as simple as like
 

2103
00:37:55,119 --> 00:37:57,190
And and even just even as simple as like
kind of inhabiting the play space more

2104
00:37:57,190 --> 00:37:57,200
kind of inhabiting the play space more
 

2105
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,150
kind of inhabiting the play space more
often, um, I would imagine probably has

2106
00:38:00,150 --> 00:38:00,160
often, um, I would imagine probably has
 

2107
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:01,910
often, um, I would imagine probably has
some some beneficial effects.

2108
00:38:01,910 --> 00:38:01,920
some some beneficial effects.
 

2109
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,069
some some beneficial effects.
>> Yeah. And I think another big thing is

2110
00:38:04,069 --> 00:38:04,079
>> Yeah. And I think another big thing is
 

2111
00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:05,750
>> Yeah. And I think another big thing is
like we all need to have a sense of

2112
00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:05,760
like we all need to have a sense of
 

2113
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,030
like we all need to have a sense of
meaning and purpose and and I think like

2114
00:38:09,030 --> 00:38:09,040
meaning and purpose and and I think like
 

2115
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,069
meaning and purpose and and I think like
a lot of men will say that being a

2116
00:38:12,069 --> 00:38:12,079
a lot of men will say that being a
 

2117
00:38:12,079 --> 00:38:13,670
a lot of men will say that being a
parent is one of their greatest sources

2118
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:13,680
parent is one of their greatest sources
 

2119
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,030
parent is one of their greatest sources
of meaning.

2120
00:38:15,030 --> 00:38:15,040
of meaning.
 

2121
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,270
of meaning.
>> And it's like a sense of legacy, right?

2122
00:38:17,270 --> 00:38:17,280
>> And it's like a sense of legacy, right?
 

2123
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,589
>> And it's like a sense of legacy, right?
Like why am I doing this? What am I

2124
00:38:19,589 --> 00:38:19,599
Like why am I doing this? What am I
 

2125
00:38:19,599 --> 00:38:21,750
Like why am I doing this? What am I
passing on to the next generation?

2126
00:38:21,750 --> 00:38:21,760
passing on to the next generation?
 

2127
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,390
passing on to the next generation?
>> Yeah. And I think that is very

2128
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:24,400
>> Yeah. And I think that is very
 

2129
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,790
>> Yeah. And I think that is very
protective of mental and physical health

2130
00:38:26,790 --> 00:38:26,800
protective of mental and physical health
 

2131
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,550
protective of mental and physical health
is to feel that sense of like social

2132
00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:28,560
is to feel that sense of like social
 

2133
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,870
is to feel that sense of like social
integration and that you have like a

2134
00:38:30,870 --> 00:38:30,880
integration and that you have like a
 

2135
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,750
integration and that you have like a
meaningful role to play in this life.

2136
00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:33,760
meaningful role to play in this life.
 

2137
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:34,150
meaningful role to play in this life.
>> So

2138
00:38:34,150 --> 00:38:34,160
>> So
 

2139
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:34,870
>> So
>> yeah,

2140
00:38:34,870 --> 00:38:34,880
>> yeah,
 

2141
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,310
>> yeah,
>> fatherhood is good for that.

2142
00:38:36,310 --> 00:38:36,320
>> fatherhood is good for that.
 

2143
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,150
>> fatherhood is good for that.
>> Absolutely. Yeah, I think I I think I

2144
00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:38,160
>> Absolutely. Yeah, I think I I think I
 

2145
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,589
>> Absolutely. Yeah, I think I I think I
agree with that. So h how is society

2146
00:38:41,589 --> 00:38:41,599
agree with that. So h how is society
 

2147
00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:44,470
agree with that. So h how is society
changing and and and reacting to a newer

2148
00:38:44,470 --> 00:38:44,480
changing and and and reacting to a newer
 

2149
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,870
changing and and and reacting to a newer
conception of fatherhood? Like you know

2150
00:38:46,870 --> 00:38:46,880
conception of fatherhood? Like you know
 

2151
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,190
conception of fatherhood? Like you know
almost nobody would not offer maternity

2152
00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:49,200
almost nobody would not offer maternity
 

2153
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,030
almost nobody would not offer maternity
leave. That's like impossible. But uh

2154
00:38:51,030 --> 00:38:51,040
leave. That's like impossible. But uh
 

2155
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,190
leave. That's like impossible. But uh
but paternity leave is something that

2156
00:38:53,190 --> 00:38:53,200
but paternity leave is something that
 

2157
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:54,710
but paternity leave is something that
we're kind of starting to talk about. I

2158
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:54,720
we're kind of starting to talk about. I
 

2159
00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:56,150
we're kind of starting to talk about. I
don't think that many companies offer

2160
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:56,160
don't think that many companies offer
 

2161
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:57,910
don't think that many companies offer
it. How does that look in America? How

2162
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:57,920
it. How does that look in America? How
 

2163
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,270
it. How does that look in America? How
does it look in other countries? I feel

2164
00:38:59,270 --> 00:38:59,280
does it look in other countries? I feel
 

2165
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,670
does it look in other countries? I feel
like probably what I bet Scandinavia

2166
00:39:01,670 --> 00:39:01,680
like probably what I bet Scandinavia
 

2167
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,550
like probably what I bet Scandinavia
like already has it. And so what's where

2168
00:39:04,550 --> 00:39:04,560
like already has it. And so what's where
 

2169
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,390
like already has it. And so what's where
are we at with paternity leave?

2170
00:39:06,390 --> 00:39:06,400
are we at with paternity leave?
 

2171
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,310
are we at with paternity leave?
>> Yeah. So we're way behind other

2172
00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:08,320
>> Yeah. So we're way behind other
 

2173
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,470
>> Yeah. So we're way behind other
countries um in both maternity and

2174
00:39:10,470 --> 00:39:10,480
countries um in both maternity and
 

2175
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,630
countries um in both maternity and
paternity leave. No, we are the only

2176
00:39:12,630 --> 00:39:12,640
paternity leave. No, we are the only
 

2177
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,349
paternity leave. No, we are the only
industrialized wealthy country that does

2178
00:39:15,349 --> 00:39:15,359
industrialized wealthy country that does
 

2179
00:39:15,359 --> 00:39:19,750
industrialized wealthy country that does
not offer paid maternity leave or like

2180
00:39:19,750 --> 00:39:19,760
not offer paid maternity leave or like
 

2181
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,430
not offer paid maternity leave or like
universal paid parental leave,

2182
00:39:21,430 --> 00:39:21,440
universal paid parental leave,
 

2183
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:22,870
universal paid parental leave,
>> right? Not universal at least.

2184
00:39:22,870 --> 00:39:22,880
>> right? Not universal at least.
 

2185
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,630
>> right? Not universal at least.
>> Yeah. Like we are an outlier.

2186
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:24,640
>> Yeah. Like we are an outlier.
 

2187
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,270
>> Yeah. Like we are an outlier.
>> Um you know, we have unpaid uh maternity

2188
00:39:27,270 --> 00:39:27,280
>> Um you know, we have unpaid uh maternity
 

2189
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,109
>> Um you know, we have unpaid uh maternity
leave, but a lot of people aren't

2190
00:39:29,109 --> 00:39:29,119
leave, but a lot of people aren't
 

2191
00:39:29,119 --> 00:39:30,790
leave, but a lot of people aren't
eligible for it. So like if you're a gig

2192
00:39:30,790 --> 00:39:30,800
eligible for it. So like if you're a gig
 

2193
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,470
eligible for it. So like if you're a gig
worker, if you're a shift worker,

2194
00:39:32,470 --> 00:39:32,480
worker, if you're a shift worker,
 

2195
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:32,950
worker, if you're a shift worker,
>> right?

2196
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:32,960
>> right?
 

2197
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:34,550
>> right?
>> Um tons of people fall through the

2198
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:34,560
>> Um tons of people fall through the
 

2199
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:35,910
>> Um tons of people fall through the
cracks. Like

2200
00:39:35,910 --> 00:39:35,920
cracks. Like
 

2201
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,230
cracks. Like
>> there is some data that a quarter of new

2202
00:39:38,230 --> 00:39:38,240
>> there is some data that a quarter of new
 

2203
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:40,150
>> there is some data that a quarter of new
moms go back to work 2 weeks after the

2204
00:39:40,150 --> 00:39:40,160
moms go back to work 2 weeks after the
 

2205
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,870
moms go back to work 2 weeks after the
birth of a baby which is like insane

2206
00:39:42,870 --> 00:39:42,880
birth of a baby which is like insane
 

2207
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,670
birth of a baby which is like insane
>> insane. Um, so as you can imagine, like

2208
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:45,680
>> insane. Um, so as you can imagine, like
 

2209
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,510
>> insane. Um, so as you can imagine, like
we're not we're also not in a great

2210
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:47,520
we're not we're also not in a great
 

2211
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,390
we're not we're also not in a great
place with paternity leave. And um, and

2212
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:50,400
place with paternity leave. And um, and
 

2213
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,550
place with paternity leave. And um, and
yeah, in like the Nordic countries, they

2214
00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:52,560
yeah, in like the Nordic countries, they
 

2215
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,230
yeah, in like the Nordic countries, they
have actually developed these like nudge

2216
00:39:54,230 --> 00:39:54,240
have actually developed these like nudge
 

2217
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:57,109
have actually developed these like nudge
or incentive programs where you get like

2218
00:39:57,109 --> 00:39:57,119
or incentive programs where you get like
 

2219
00:39:57,119 --> 00:39:59,589
or incentive programs where you get like
a use it or lose it leave where the

2220
00:39:59,589 --> 00:39:59,599
a use it or lose it leave where the
 

2221
00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:01,750
a use it or lose it leave where the
couple gets leave, but some of it is

2222
00:40:01,750 --> 00:40:01,760
couple gets leave, but some of it is
 

2223
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:03,910
couple gets leave, but some of it is
actually earmarked for the dad and if

2224
00:40:03,910 --> 00:40:03,920
actually earmarked for the dad and if
 

2225
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,589
actually earmarked for the dad and if
the dad doesn't take it, it just goes

2226
00:40:05,589 --> 00:40:05,599
the dad doesn't take it, it just goes
 

2227
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:06,470
the dad doesn't take it, it just goes
away.

2228
00:40:06,470 --> 00:40:06,480
away.
 

2229
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,870
away.
>> So it kind of incentivizes men to take

2230
00:40:08,870 --> 00:40:08,880
>> So it kind of incentivizes men to take
 

2231
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,030
>> So it kind of incentivizes men to take
leave. And like Norway was one of the

2232
00:40:11,030 --> 00:40:11,040
leave. And like Norway was one of the
 

2233
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:12,630
leave. And like Norway was one of the
first countries to adopt this. And when

2234
00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:12,640
first countries to adopt this. And when
 

2235
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,270
first countries to adopt this. And when
they did, way more dads started taking

2236
00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:15,280
they did, way more dads started taking
 

2237
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:16,950
they did, way more dads started taking
time off, right? Because all of a sudden

2238
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:16,960
time off, right? Because all of a sudden
 

2239
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:18,550
time off, right? Because all of a sudden
it was like you had this benefit that

2240
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:18,560
it was like you had this benefit that
 

2241
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,950
it was like you had this benefit that
was like conditional. Yeah. On you

2242
00:40:20,950 --> 00:40:20,960
was like conditional. Yeah. On you
 

2243
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,430
was like conditional. Yeah. On you
taking time off. And it's really created

2244
00:40:23,430 --> 00:40:23,440
taking time off. And it's really created
 

2245
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,390
taking time off. And it's really created
like a culture of fatherhood in those

2246
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:26,400
like a culture of fatherhood in those
 

2247
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,630
like a culture of fatherhood in those
countries where like in Sweden you have

2248
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:28,640
countries where like in Sweden you have
 

2249
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,870
countries where like in Sweden you have
this thing called latte papas which are

2250
00:40:30,870 --> 00:40:30,880
this thing called latte papas which are
 

2251
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:32,150
this thing called latte papas which are
like men who walk around with their

2252
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:32,160
like men who walk around with their
 

2253
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,150
like men who walk around with their
latte cups and like go to the park and

2254
00:40:34,150 --> 00:40:34,160
latte cups and like go to the park and
 

2255
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,069
latte cups and like go to the park and
like have playdates and like they're

2256
00:40:36,069 --> 00:40:36,079
like have playdates and like they're
 

2257
00:40:36,079 --> 00:40:38,310
like have playdates and like they're
just home with like young kids

2258
00:40:38,310 --> 00:40:38,320
just home with like young kids
 

2259
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,710
just home with like young kids
>> um you know for 3 months or 6 months or

2260
00:40:40,710 --> 00:40:40,720
>> um you know for 3 months or 6 months or
 

2261
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:43,030
>> um you know for 3 months or 6 months or
you know whatever the leave period is.

2262
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:43,040
you know whatever the leave period is.
 

2263
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,270
you know whatever the leave period is.
And so it creates this sort of like

2264
00:40:45,270 --> 00:40:45,280
And so it creates this sort of like
 

2265
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,030
And so it creates this sort of like
normalization of fatherhood that I think

2266
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:49,040
normalization of fatherhood that I think
 

2267
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,230
normalization of fatherhood that I think
is is like new in in certain parts of

2268
00:40:52,230 --> 00:40:52,240
is is like new in in certain parts of
 

2269
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:53,990
is is like new in in certain parts of
the world. Like father the definition of

2270
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:54,000
the world. Like father the definition of
 

2271
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,030
the world. Like father the definition of
fatherhood is changing quickly and um

2272
00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:57,040
fatherhood is changing quickly and um
 

2273
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,829
fatherhood is changing quickly and um
we're kind of undergoing this like

2274
00:40:59,829 --> 00:40:59,839
we're kind of undergoing this like
 

2275
00:40:59,839 --> 00:41:02,790
we're kind of undergoing this like
rearrangement of parental roles as women

2276
00:41:02,790 --> 00:41:02,800
rearrangement of parental roles as women
 

2277
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,589
rearrangement of parental roles as women
develop more you know income and status

2278
00:41:05,589 --> 00:41:05,599
develop more you know income and status
 

2279
00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:06,630
develop more you know income and status
in the workplace.

2280
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:06,640
in the workplace.
 

2281
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,589
in the workplace.
>> Yeah. And and yet we also see how it

2282
00:41:09,589 --> 00:41:09,599
>> Yeah. And and yet we also see how it
 

2283
00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:11,589
>> Yeah. And and yet we also see how it
varies just depending on different

2284
00:41:11,589 --> 00:41:11,599
varies just depending on different
 

2285
00:41:11,599 --> 00:41:13,510
varies just depending on different
public policies.

2286
00:41:13,510 --> 00:41:13,520
public policies.
 

2287
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:14,630
public policies.
>> Absolutely. Yeah. I feel like it's

2288
00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:14,640
>> Absolutely. Yeah. I feel like it's
 

2289
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,710
>> Absolutely. Yeah. I feel like it's
inevitable when you're shedding the more

2290
00:41:16,710 --> 00:41:16,720
inevitable when you're shedding the more
 

2291
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:19,750
inevitable when you're shedding the more
archaic gender roles. Um things have to

2292
00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:19,760
archaic gender roles. Um things have to
 

2293
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,390
archaic gender roles. Um things have to
change on both sides. What about ongoing

2294
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:22,400
change on both sides. What about ongoing
 

2295
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:23,990
change on both sides. What about ongoing
through fatherhood? Is the workplace

2296
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:24,000
through fatherhood? Is the workplace
 

2297
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,670
through fatherhood? Is the workplace
suggesting at all? Not just for

2298
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:25,680
suggesting at all? Not just for
 

2299
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,510
suggesting at all? Not just for
paternity leave, but in general men who

2300
00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:27,520
paternity leave, but in general men who
 

2301
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,750
paternity leave, but in general men who
want to be more involved uh in

2302
00:41:29,750 --> 00:41:29,760
want to be more involved uh in
 

2303
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,069
want to be more involved uh in
parenthood. Are we seeing changes there?

2304
00:41:32,069 --> 00:41:32,079
parenthood. Are we seeing changes there?
 

2305
00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:33,910
parenthood. Are we seeing changes there?
>> Yeah. So I interviewed I have a chapter

2306
00:41:33,910 --> 00:41:33,920
>> Yeah. So I interviewed I have a chapter
 

2307
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:35,589
>> Yeah. So I interviewed I have a chapter
on dads at work. I interviewed a bunch

2308
00:41:35,589 --> 00:41:35,599
on dads at work. I interviewed a bunch
 

2309
00:41:35,599 --> 00:41:37,349
on dads at work. I interviewed a bunch
of different dads kind of about their

2310
00:41:37,349 --> 00:41:37,359
of different dads kind of about their
 

2311
00:41:37,359 --> 00:41:39,910
of different dads kind of about their
experiences with work and a lot of

2312
00:41:39,910 --> 00:41:39,920
experiences with work and a lot of
 

2313
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,349
experiences with work and a lot of
people said to me they just feel like

2314
00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:41,359
people said to me they just feel like
 

2315
00:41:41,359 --> 00:41:43,829
people said to me they just feel like
the norms have changed generationally

2316
00:41:43,829 --> 00:41:43,839
the norms have changed generationally
 

2317
00:41:43,839 --> 00:41:45,990
the norms have changed generationally
and in part the pandemic was a big

2318
00:41:45,990 --> 00:41:46,000
and in part the pandemic was a big
 

2319
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,430
and in part the pandemic was a big
inflection point because um men all of a

2320
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:49,440
inflection point because um men all of a
 

2321
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,150
inflection point because um men all of a
sudden were home with kids and just much

2322
00:41:52,150 --> 00:41:52,160
sudden were home with kids and just much
 

2323
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,710
sudden were home with kids and just much
more involved in day-to-day life. And

2324
00:41:54,710 --> 00:41:54,720
more involved in day-to-day life. And
 

2325
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:56,950
more involved in day-to-day life. And
for a lot of millennial men they just

2326
00:41:56,950 --> 00:41:56,960
for a lot of millennial men they just
 

2327
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,550
for a lot of millennial men they just
didn't necessarily want to go back to

2328
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:58,560
didn't necessarily want to go back to
 

2329
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,190
didn't necessarily want to go back to
long hours at the office, right? And and

2330
00:42:01,190 --> 00:42:01,200
long hours at the office, right? And and
 

2331
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,510
long hours at the office, right? And and
so the sort of like idea of like working

2332
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:03,520
so the sort of like idea of like working
 

2333
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,630
so the sort of like idea of like working
remotely, working more flexibly, um kids

2334
00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:06,640
remotely, working more flexibly, um kids
 

2335
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,190
remotely, working more flexibly, um kids
popping up on Zoom meetings, like all of

2336
00:42:09,190 --> 00:42:09,200
popping up on Zoom meetings, like all of
 

2337
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:10,710
popping up on Zoom meetings, like all of
those things have kind of shifted our

2338
00:42:10,710 --> 00:42:10,720
those things have kind of shifted our
 

2339
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:13,270
those things have kind of shifted our
norms around parenting. And I think the

2340
00:42:13,270 --> 00:42:13,280
norms around parenting. And I think the
 

2341
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,109
norms around parenting. And I think the
most progressive workplaces are adapting

2342
00:42:15,109 --> 00:42:15,119
most progressive workplaces are adapting
 

2343
00:42:15,119 --> 00:42:17,270
most progressive workplaces are adapting
to that and finding ways to develop

2344
00:42:17,270 --> 00:42:17,280
to that and finding ways to develop
 

2345
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,069
to that and finding ways to develop
policies that adapt better to dads. Um,

2346
00:42:20,069 --> 00:42:20,079
policies that adapt better to dads. Um,
 

2347
00:42:20,079 --> 00:42:22,069
policies that adapt better to dads. Um,
at the same time, you also have this

2348
00:42:22,069 --> 00:42:22,079
at the same time, you also have this
 

2349
00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:25,750
at the same time, you also have this
like rising gig economy of like Amazon

2350
00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:25,760
like rising gig economy of like Amazon
 

2351
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,109
like rising gig economy of like Amazon
warehouse workers and Uber drivers and

2352
00:42:29,109 --> 00:42:29,119
warehouse workers and Uber drivers and
 

2353
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:30,870
warehouse workers and Uber drivers and
folks who maybe don't have a lot of

2354
00:42:30,870 --> 00:42:30,880
folks who maybe don't have a lot of
 

2355
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,190
folks who maybe don't have a lot of
benefits and job security where it's

2356
00:42:33,190 --> 00:42:33,200
benefits and job security where it's
 

2357
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:34,390
benefits and job security where it's
actually harder to show up as an

2358
00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:34,400
actually harder to show up as an
 

2359
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,190
actually harder to show up as an
involved parent. So, I feel like the the

2360
00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:37,200
involved parent. So, I feel like the the
 

2361
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:38,790
involved parent. So, I feel like the the
economic story of the day is that

2362
00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:38,800
economic story of the day is that
 

2363
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,190
economic story of the day is that
everything is K-shaped. And I think like

2364
00:42:41,190 --> 00:42:41,200
everything is K-shaped. And I think like
 

2365
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:42,950
everything is K-shaped. And I think like
fatherhood is also kind of K-shaped.

2366
00:42:42,950 --> 00:42:42,960
fatherhood is also kind of K-shaped.
 

2367
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:44,630
fatherhood is also kind of K-shaped.
It's like for the most advantaged

2368
00:42:44,630 --> 00:42:44,640
It's like for the most advantaged
 

2369
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,470
It's like for the most advantaged
fathers, they're spending more time than

2370
00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:46,480
fathers, they're spending more time than
 

2371
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,550
fathers, they're spending more time than
ever before. And for the least

2372
00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:48,560
ever before. And for the least
 

2373
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,390
ever before. And for the least
privileged dads, their time with kids is

2374
00:42:50,390 --> 00:42:50,400
privileged dads, their time with kids is
 

2375
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:51,510
privileged dads, their time with kids is
actually going down,

2376
00:42:51,510 --> 00:42:51,520
actually going down,
 

2377
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,430
actually going down,
>> right? Yeah. They're just at the mercy

2378
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:53,440
>> right? Yeah. They're just at the mercy
 

2379
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,309
>> right? Yeah. They're just at the mercy
of whatever. Yeah. I mean, that opens it

2380
00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:56,319
of whatever. Yeah. I mean, that opens it
 

2381
00:42:56,319 --> 00:42:58,790
of whatever. Yeah. I mean, that opens it
up to a much broader economic discussion

2382
00:42:58,790 --> 00:42:58,800
up to a much broader economic discussion
 

2383
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,510
up to a much broader economic discussion
of where the job market is going and

2384
00:43:01,510 --> 00:43:01,520
of where the job market is going and
 

2385
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,630
of where the job market is going and
Yeah. Uh and as AI more and more layoffs

2386
00:43:04,630 --> 00:43:04,640
Yeah. Uh and as AI more and more layoffs
 

2387
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,390
Yeah. Uh and as AI more and more layoffs
and we just open up a whole another can

2388
00:43:06,390 --> 00:43:06,400
and we just open up a whole another can
 

2389
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:07,190
and we just open up a whole another can
of worms there.

2390
00:43:07,190 --> 00:43:07,200
of worms there.
 

2391
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:08,069
of worms there.
>> Yeah.

2392
00:43:08,069 --> 00:43:08,079
>> Yeah.
 

2393
00:43:08,079 --> 00:43:10,069
>> Yeah.
>> Although I mean you could argue AI is

2394
00:43:10,069 --> 00:43:10,079
>> Although I mean you could argue AI is
 

2395
00:43:10,079 --> 00:43:11,750
>> Although I mean you could argue AI is
like one of the few things AI can't do

2396
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:11,760
like one of the few things AI can't do
 

2397
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:13,670
like one of the few things AI can't do
very well is parent your kids for you.

2398
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:13,680
very well is parent your kids for you.
 

2399
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:15,510
very well is parent your kids for you.
>> Right. Of course. Yeah. So then it just

2400
00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:15,520
>> Right. Of course. Yeah. So then it just
 

2401
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,430
>> Right. Of course. Yeah. So then it just
it becomes a matter of like will we ever

2402
00:43:17,430 --> 00:43:17,440
it becomes a matter of like will we ever
 

2403
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,790
it becomes a matter of like will we ever
get UBI to like you know I don't know.

2404
00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:20,800
get UBI to like you know I don't know.
 

2405
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,230
get UBI to like you know I don't know.
Yeah.

2406
00:43:22,230 --> 00:43:22,240
Yeah.
 

2407
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:23,349
Yeah.
>> Whole other discussion.

2408
00:43:23,349 --> 00:43:23,359
>> Whole other discussion.
 

2409
00:43:23,359 --> 00:43:25,829
>> Whole other discussion.
>> I I I wrote a whole oped about UBI for

2410
00:43:25,829 --> 00:43:25,839
>> I I I wrote a whole oped about UBI for
 

2411
00:43:25,839 --> 00:43:27,670
>> I I I wrote a whole oped about UBI for
caregivers. I think zero if you have

2412
00:43:27,670 --> 00:43:27,680
caregivers. I think zero if you have
 

2413
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:29,190
caregivers. I think zero if you have
kids from zero to three you should get

2414
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:29,200
kids from zero to three you should get
 

2415
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:30,150
kids from zero to three you should get
UBI.

2416
00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:30,160
UBI.
 

2417
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,550
UBI.
>> Yeah. I I would get on board with that

2418
00:43:32,550 --> 00:43:32,560
>> Yeah. I I would get on board with that
 

2419
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,630
>> Yeah. I I would get on board with that
in a second. Yeah. I mean it's just so

2420
00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:34,640
in a second. Yeah. I mean it's just so
 

2421
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,069
in a second. Yeah. I mean it's just so
hard. Having little kids is so hard.

2422
00:43:38,069 --> 00:43:38,079
hard. Having little kids is so hard.
 

2423
00:43:38,079 --> 00:43:39,349
hard. Having little kids is so hard.
It's so much harder than I thought it

2424
00:43:39,349 --> 00:43:39,359
It's so much harder than I thought it
 

2425
00:43:39,359 --> 00:43:41,190
It's so much harder than I thought it
was going to be. It really it it it

2426
00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:41,200
was going to be. It really it it it
 

2427
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,349
was going to be. It really it it it
really uh it really was. And now that my

2428
00:43:43,349 --> 00:43:43,359
really uh it really was. And now that my
 

2429
00:43:43,359 --> 00:43:46,390
really uh it really was. And now that my
younger is three and he can talk and and

2430
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:46,400
younger is three and he can talk and and
 

2431
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:47,670
younger is three and he can talk and and
you know, I mean, he's still kind of in

2432
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:47,680
you know, I mean, he's still kind of in
 

2433
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:49,990
you know, I mean, he's still kind of in
a whiny phase. I think in like one to

2434
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:50,000
a whiny phase. I think in like one to
 

2435
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,670
a whiny phase. I think in like one to
two years from now, it's just going to

2436
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:51,680
two years from now, it's just going to
 

2437
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,550
two years from now, it's just going to
be so good because it'll it just it was

2438
00:43:54,550 --> 00:43:54,560
be so good because it'll it just it was
 

2439
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,150
be so good because it'll it just it was
so hard. And then when it's all of a

2440
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:56,160
so hard. And then when it's all of a
 

2441
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,349
so hard. And then when it's all of a
sudden not so hard and you have these

2442
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:59,359
sudden not so hard and you have these
 

2443
00:43:59,359 --> 00:44:01,589
sudden not so hard and you have these
two awesome little humans that you're

2444
00:44:01,589 --> 00:44:01,599
two awesome little humans that you're
 

2445
00:44:01,599 --> 00:44:03,270
two awesome little humans that you're
friends with, it's just like, oh, it was

2446
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:03,280
friends with, it's just like, oh, it was
 

2447
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:04,069
friends with, it's just like, oh, it was
all worth it.

2448
00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:04,079
all worth it.
 

2449
00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:04,550
all worth it.
>> Um

2450
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:04,560
>> Um
 

2451
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:05,430
>> Um
>> Yes.

2452
00:44:05,430 --> 00:44:05,440
>> Yes.
 

2453
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,430
>> Yes.
>> I feel the same way. My kids are 14 and

2454
00:44:07,430 --> 00:44:07,440
>> I feel the same way. My kids are 14 and
 

2455
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,270
>> I feel the same way. My kids are 14 and
16, so now I have to fight to get them

2456
00:44:09,270 --> 00:44:09,280
16, so now I have to fight to get them
 

2457
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:10,550
16, so now I have to fight to get them
to spend time with me.

2458
00:44:10,550 --> 00:44:10,560
to spend time with me.
 

2459
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,870
to spend time with me.
>> Yeah. Um, and and it's like my life is

2460
00:44:12,870 --> 00:44:12,880
>> Yeah. Um, and and it's like my life is
 

2461
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:14,950
>> Yeah. Um, and and it's like my life is
so much less stressful than it was 10

2462
00:44:14,950 --> 00:44:14,960
so much less stressful than it was 10
 

2463
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:15,589
so much less stressful than it was 10
years ago.

2464
00:44:15,589 --> 00:44:15,599
years ago.
 

2465
00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:16,470
years ago.
>> I can only imagine.

2466
00:44:16,470 --> 00:44:16,480
>> I can only imagine.
 

2467
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:17,589
>> I can only imagine.
>> It's crazy.

2468
00:44:17,589 --> 00:44:17,599
>> It's crazy.
 

2469
00:44:17,599 --> 00:44:20,069
>> It's crazy.
>> It's crazy. Last night I went outside my

2470
00:44:20,069 --> 00:44:20,079
>> It's crazy. Last night I went outside my
 

2471
00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:21,910
>> It's crazy. Last night I went outside my
house and like went to a rock show and

2472
00:44:21,910 --> 00:44:21,920
house and like went to a rock show and
 

2473
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:22,630
house and like went to a rock show and
like

2474
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:22,640
like
 

2475
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,550
like
>> came back whenever I felt like it and

2476
00:44:24,550 --> 00:44:24,560
>> came back whenever I felt like it and
 

2477
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,190
>> came back whenever I felt like it and
nobody was worried and it was like total

2478
00:44:27,190 --> 00:44:27,200
nobody was worried and it was like total
 

2479
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:27,829
nobody was worried and it was like total
freedom.

2480
00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:27,839
freedom.
 

2481
00:44:27,839 --> 00:44:29,750
freedom.
>> Yeah. They can do everything themselves.

2482
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:29,760
>> Yeah. They can do everything themselves.
 

2483
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,430
>> Yeah. They can do everything themselves.
Yeah. It's like my older one can like go

2484
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:31,440
Yeah. It's like my older one can like go
 

2485
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:32,950
Yeah. It's like my older one can like go
to the bathroom on on his own and stuff

2486
00:44:32,950 --> 00:44:32,960
to the bathroom on on his own and stuff
 

2487
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,550
to the bathroom on on his own and stuff
and I'm like, "Wow, all right. One less

2488
00:44:34,550 --> 00:44:34,560
and I'm like, "Wow, all right. One less
 

2489
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:35,589
and I'm like, "Wow, all right. One less
thing, you know."

2490
00:44:35,589 --> 00:44:35,599
thing, you know."
 

2491
00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:35,910
thing, you know."
>> Yeah.

2492
00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:35,920
>> Yeah.
 

2493
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:36,870
>> Yeah.
>> But um

2494
00:44:36,870 --> 00:44:36,880
>> But um
 

2495
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,109
>> But um
>> Yeah. Once you can go places with no car

2496
00:44:39,109 --> 00:44:39,119
>> Yeah. Once you can go places with no car
 

2497
00:44:39,119 --> 00:44:42,550
>> Yeah. Once you can go places with no car
seat, no stroller, no bibs, no

2498
00:44:42,550 --> 00:44:42,560
seat, no stroller, no bibs, no
 

2499
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,510
seat, no stroller, no bibs, no
pacifiers, no diaper bag, you're like,

2500
00:44:45,510 --> 00:44:45,520
pacifiers, no diaper bag, you're like,
 

2501
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,190
pacifiers, no diaper bag, you're like,
"Oh my god, I'm so free."

2502
00:44:47,190 --> 00:44:47,200
"Oh my god, I'm so free."
 

2503
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:48,950
"Oh my god, I'm so free."
>> Yeah. Yeah. And then it only gets easier

2504
00:44:48,950 --> 00:44:48,960
>> Yeah. Yeah. And then it only gets easier
 

2505
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:50,390
>> Yeah. Yeah. And then it only gets easier
from there until you're like, "Oh, I

2506
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:50,400
from there until you're like, "Oh, I
 

2507
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,069
from there until you're like, "Oh, I
wish some of it would come back."

2508
00:44:52,069 --> 00:44:52,079
wish some of it would come back."
 

2509
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:53,910
wish some of it would come back."
>> Yeah. Now I'm like knocking on my kids

2510
00:44:53,910 --> 00:44:53,920
>> Yeah. Now I'm like knocking on my kids
 

2511
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,270
>> Yeah. Now I'm like knocking on my kids
door being like, "Hey, do you want to

2512
00:44:55,270 --> 00:44:55,280
door being like, "Hey, do you want to
 

2513
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:55,990
door being like, "Hey, do you want to
hang out?"

2514
00:44:55,990 --> 00:44:56,000
hang out?"
 

2515
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:56,630
hang out?"
>> Yeah, please.

2516
00:44:56,630 --> 00:44:56,640
>> Yeah, please.
 

2517
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,790
>> Yeah, please.
>> Yeah. Come sit with me on the couch. We

2518
00:44:58,790 --> 00:44:58,800
>> Yeah. Come sit with me on the couch. We
 

2519
00:44:58,800 --> 00:44:59,910
>> Yeah. Come sit with me on the couch. We
can watch a show.

2520
00:44:59,910 --> 00:44:59,920
can watch a show.
 

2521
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:00,710
can watch a show.
>> Yeah.

2522
00:45:00,710 --> 00:45:00,720
>> Yeah.
 

2523
00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:01,190
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.

2524
00:45:01,190 --> 00:45:01,200
>> Yeah.
 

2525
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,190
>> Yeah.
>> Well, I'll try to Yeah. I have this kind

2526
00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:03,200
>> Well, I'll try to Yeah. I have this kind
 

2527
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,309
>> Well, I'll try to Yeah. I have this kind
of like middle sector to to look forward

2528
00:45:06,309 --> 00:45:06,319
of like middle sector to to look forward
 

2529
00:45:06,319 --> 00:45:08,710
of like middle sector to to look forward
to, but we'll see. But anyway, yeah, it

2530
00:45:08,710 --> 00:45:08,720
to, but we'll see. But anyway, yeah, it
 

2531
00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:10,309
to, but we'll see. But anyway, yeah, it
sounds like I mean, yeah, motherhood,

2532
00:45:10,309 --> 00:45:10,319
sounds like I mean, yeah, motherhood,
 

2533
00:45:10,319 --> 00:45:12,870
sounds like I mean, yeah, motherhood,
fatherhood, it's all great. And uh it

2534
00:45:12,870 --> 00:45:12,880
fatherhood, it's all great. And uh it
 

2535
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,950
fatherhood, it's all great. And uh it
looks like the era of the dad is kind of

2536
00:45:14,950 --> 00:45:14,960
looks like the era of the dad is kind of
 

2537
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,829
looks like the era of the dad is kind of
uh coming up here. Um so yeah, I can't

2538
00:45:17,829 --> 00:45:17,839
uh coming up here. Um so yeah, I can't
 

2539
00:45:17,839 --> 00:45:19,270
uh coming up here. Um so yeah, I can't
think of anything else to ask, but uh

2540
00:45:19,270 --> 00:45:19,280
think of anything else to ask, but uh
 

2541
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:20,630
think of anything else to ask, but uh
tell us where where we can find your

2542
00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:20,640
tell us where where we can find your
 

2543
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:21,430
tell us where where we can find your
book.

2544
00:45:21,430 --> 00:45:21,440
book.
 

2545
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,390
book.
>> Yes, so it is coming out June 9th, and

2546
00:45:24,390 --> 00:45:24,400
>> Yes, so it is coming out June 9th, and
 

2547
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,150
>> Yes, so it is coming out June 9th, and
it will be at bookstores everywhere.

2548
00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:26,160
it will be at bookstores everywhere.
 

2549
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,109
it will be at bookstores everywhere.
Folks can pre-order it before then. And

2550
00:45:29,109 --> 00:45:29,119
Folks can pre-order it before then. And
 

2551
00:45:29,119 --> 00:45:31,750
Folks can pre-order it before then. And
um I'll show you the cover again. Here

2552
00:45:31,750 --> 00:45:31,760
um I'll show you the cover again. Here
 

2553
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,150
um I'll show you the cover again. Here
it is. Uh, it's coming out from Flat

2554
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:34,160
it is. Uh, it's coming out from Flat
 

2555
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:35,750
it is. Uh, it's coming out from Flat
Iron Press, which is a division of

2556
00:45:35,750 --> 00:45:35,760
Iron Press, which is a division of
 

2557
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,150
Iron Press, which is a division of
McMillan and, uh, available wherever

2558
00:45:38,150 --> 00:45:38,160
McMillan and, uh, available wherever
 

2559
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:39,109
McMillan and, uh, available wherever
books are sold.

2560
00:45:39,109 --> 00:45:39,119
books are sold.
 

2561
00:45:39,119 --> 00:45:40,870
books are sold.
>> Very cool. I will definitely have the

2562
00:45:40,870 --> 00:45:40,880
>> Very cool. I will definitely have the
 

2563
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,390
>> Very cool. I will definitely have the
link in the description. Everybody, go

2564
00:45:42,390 --> 00:45:42,400
link in the description. Everybody, go
 

2565
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,390
link in the description. Everybody, go
ahead and check it out. But uh, yeah,

2566
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:44,400
ahead and check it out. But uh, yeah,
 

2567
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:45,750
ahead and check it out. But uh, yeah,
thanks so much for talking to me.

2568
00:45:45,750 --> 00:45:45,760
thanks so much for talking to me.
 

2569
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,069
thanks so much for talking to me.
>> Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

2570
00:45:48,069 --> 00:45:48,079
>> Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
 

2571
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:50,230
>> Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
>> Fascinating stuff. No, I know I learned

2572
00:45:50,230 --> 00:45:50,240
>> Fascinating stuff. No, I know I learned
 

2573
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:51,829
>> Fascinating stuff. No, I know I learned
a lot. If you're interested in checking

2574
00:45:51,829 --> 00:45:51,839
a lot. If you're interested in checking
 

2575
00:45:51,839 --> 00:45:53,349
a lot. If you're interested in checking
out the book for yourself, whether

2576
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:53,359
out the book for yourself, whether
 

2577
00:45:53,359 --> 00:45:55,510
out the book for yourself, whether
you're a dad, planning to become a dad,

2578
00:45:55,510 --> 00:45:55,520
you're a dad, planning to become a dad,
 

2579
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,510
you're a dad, planning to become a dad,
or as a gift for a special dad in your

2580
00:45:57,510 --> 00:45:57,520
or as a gift for a special dad in your
 

2581
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:59,270
or as a gift for a special dad in your
life, check the link in the description.

2582
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:59,280
life, check the link in the description.
 

2583
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:00,870
life, check the link in the description.
Otherwise, stay tuned for more

2584
00:46:00,870 --> 00:46:00,880
Otherwise, stay tuned for more
 

2585
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,950
Otherwise, stay tuned for more
fascinating discussions with researchers

2586
00:46:02,950 --> 00:46:02,960
fascinating discussions with researchers
 

2587
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,960
fascinating discussions with researchers
and other academics in the near future.